Elitist Jerks - View Single Post - Feral Attack Power: When good intentions go dumb.

• sadris · 05/21/07, 1:59 PM

Before the creation of feral attack power, Druid weapons were typically those which involved high amounts of crit/strength/agility (i.e.: The Unstoppable Force). In 1.8, Blizzard introduced a new stat: Feral Attack Power which was supposed to help bridge the gap which was created between the scaling "real" weapons and the Druid "paw weapon." At first it seemed like a good idea, and there was much rejoicing. However, a glaring problem is starting to develop. But first look at the history of the pre-TBC FAP weapons:

Hammer of Bestial Fury
52.4dps / iLevel 71 / 154 FAP

Blessed Qiraji War Hammer
60.7dps / iLevel 70 / 280 FAP

Mace of Unending Life
41.5dps / iLevel 70 / 140 FAP

End of Dreams
43.5dps / iLevel 83 / 305 FAP

Looking at just the HOBF and BQWH, they do not have sacrificed DPS (their DPS matches exactly with that of equivalent iLevel non-FAP weapons). The MOUL and EOD do have sacrificed base DPS due to their caster stats; they are considered caster weapons but they have FAP strapped on as a bonus. How much FAP was allocated to them? Exactly enough to make the weapon's base DPS plus the FAP match that of an equivalent iLevel weapon. For example:

Sickle of Unyielding Strength
51.5dps

Mace of Unending Life
41.5dps + 140/14 = 51.5dps

Harbinger of Doom
65.3dps

End of Dreams
43.5dps + 305/14 = 65.3dps

So it seems that Druids are on the better side of the deal here for the End of Dreams only. Due to the base form dps of about 55, we gain about 10dps more. With the MOUL we actually lose DPS relative to other classes, most likely due to the low iLevel. If this trend of one-handed FAP weapons continued, Druids would gain more and more relative DPS as iLevel increased. However, this is for one-handed weapons only; assuming that other classes would be dual-wielding or using a two-hander, their base DPS would be higher. Thankfully, Blizzard "rectified" this in the Burning Crusade with two-handed FAP weapons. Now fast forward to where we are today:

Staff of Beasts (DPS matches with Honed Voidaxe)
60.2dps / iLevel 103 / 298 FAP
60.2 + 298/14 = 81.5dps

Dreamer's Dragonstaff (DPS matches with High Warlord's Claymore)
63dps / iLevel 115 / 423 FAP
63 + 423/14 = 93.2dps

Terestian's Stranglestaff (DPS matches with Despair)
67.2dps / iLevel 115 / 647 FAP
67.2 + 647/14 = 113.4dps

Wildfury Greatstaff (DPS matches with World Breaker)
69.4dps / iLevel 128 / 731 FAP
69.4 + 731/14 = 121.6dps

Pillar of Ferocity (Let's assume it matches to a weapon with 130.5 DPS)
71.5dps / iLevel 141 / 826 FAP
71.5 + 826/14 = 130.5dps

Staff of Disintegration (DPS matches with Devastation)
77.7dps / iLevel 175 / 1125 FAP
77.7 + 1125/14 = 158.1dps

Everything seems fine, except for one glaring issue: Druid base form DPS is not increasing as we equip higher-iLevel weapons. Our base form DPS is 55. It stays at 55. It has stayed at 55 grinding from 60 to 70. It is staying at 55 when patch 2.1 hits. And now if you calculate the DPS that Druids get with this in mind, a colossal issue surfaces: our relative DPS decreases as we get better gear.

Staff of Beasts: 55 + 298/14 = 76.7dps, 5.6% lower than Honed Voidaxe
Dreamer's Dragonstaff: 55 + 423/14 = 85.2dps, 8.5% lower than HW Claymore
Terestian's Stranglestaff: 55 + 647/14 = 101.2dps, 10.9% lower than Despair
Wildfury Greatstaff: 55 + 731/14 = 107.2dps, 11.8% lower than World Breaker
Pillar of Ferocity: 55 + 826/14 = 114dps, 12.6% lower than a 130.5dps weapon
Staff of Disintegration: 55 + 135.4dps, 14.4% lower than Devastation

If you extrapolate this to an item with iLevel of infinity, this disastrous pattern will continue. Now one must ask the question: Why?

My theory is that the item designers are simply following the pattern set forth by the EOD and MOUL: put enough FAP on the item so that the base DPS + FAP equals the DPS of an equivalent dagger, axe, etc. This would have worked if one-handers were still used as caster-based maces/daggers did not change their base DPS due to changes in iLevel. This is not the case for caster staves; their base DPS does increase. This leads to the problem, however, that Druids do not get to dual wield...

Now what about the HOBF and AQWH? Yes, their base DPS matches that of an equivalent weapon even without the FAP. I believe that this is because a] they wanted these items to remain useful to other classes (*cough* Warriors) or b] these were the first items they ever made with FAP and they had no idea what to do with them.

So my question to EJ is: Why do you think our weapons are reverse-scaling? Do you think Blizzard is aware of this issue? Do you think that FAP, overall, is a band-aid over a gushing wound and should be scraped altogether for true weapon scaling?

Note: Before you make yourself look dumb and post about our talents like Naturalist and self-buffs like Cat Form remember that other classes also have talents and self-buffs. (Weapon Mastery, Dual Wield Specialization and Berserker Stance, Fel Armor are just a few examples)

05/21/07, 1:59 PM	#1
• sadris "If its not the best then its wrong" Zadrix Tauren Druid <Juggernaut> Mal'Ganis	Feral Attack Power: When good intentions go dumb. Before the creation of feral attack power, Druid weapons were typically those which involved high amounts of crit/strength/agility (i.e.: The Unstoppable Force). In 1.8, Blizzard introduced a new stat: Feral Attack Power which was supposed to help bridge the gap which was created between the scaling "real" weapons and the Druid "paw weapon." At first it seemed like a good idea, and there was much rejoicing. However, a glaring problem is starting to develop. But first look at the history of the pre-TBC FAP weapons: Hammer of Bestial Fury 52.4dps / iLevel 71 / 154 FAP Blessed Qiraji War Hammer 60.7dps / iLevel 70 / 280 FAP Mace of Unending Life 41.5dps / iLevel 70 / 140 FAP End of Dreams 43.5dps / iLevel 83 / 305 FAP Looking at just the HOBF and BQWH, they do not have sacrificed DPS (their DPS matches exactly with that of equivalent iLevel non-FAP weapons). The MOUL and EOD do have sacrificed base DPS due to their caster stats; they are considered caster weapons but they have FAP strapped on as a bonus. How much FAP was allocated to them? Exactly enough to make the weapon's base DPS plus the FAP match that of an equivalent iLevel weapon. For example: Sickle of Unyielding Strength 51.5dps Mace of Unending Life 41.5dps + 140/14 = 51.5dps Harbinger of Doom 65.3dps End of Dreams 43.5dps + 305/14 = 65.3dps So it seems that Druids are on the better side of the deal here for the End of Dreams only. Due to the base form dps of about 55, we gain about 10dps more. With the MOUL we actually lose DPS relative to other classes, most likely due to the low iLevel. If this trend of one-handed FAP weapons continued, Druids would gain more and more relative DPS as iLevel increased. However, this is for one-handed weapons only; assuming that other classes would be dual-wielding or using a two-hander, their base DPS would be higher. Thankfully, Blizzard "rectified" this in the Burning Crusade with two-handed FAP weapons. Now fast forward to where we are today: Staff of Beasts (DPS matches with Honed Voidaxe) 60.2dps / iLevel 103 / 298 FAP 60.2 + 298/14 = 81.5dps Dreamer's Dragonstaff (DPS matches with High Warlord's Claymore) 63dps / iLevel 115 / 423 FAP 63 + 423/14 = 93.2dps Terestian's Stranglestaff (DPS matches with Despair) 67.2dps / iLevel 115 / 647 FAP 67.2 + 647/14 = 113.4dps Wildfury Greatstaff (DPS matches with World Breaker) 69.4dps / iLevel 128 / 731 FAP 69.4 + 731/14 = 121.6dps Pillar of Ferocity (Let's assume it matches to a weapon with 130.5 DPS) 71.5dps / iLevel 141 / 826 FAP 71.5 + 826/14 = 130.5dps Staff of Disintegration (DPS matches with Devastation) 77.7dps / iLevel 175 / 1125 FAP 77.7 + 1125/14 = 158.1dps Everything seems fine, except for one glaring issue: Druid base form DPS is not increasing as we equip higher-iLevel weapons. Our base form DPS is 55. It stays at 55. It has stayed at 55 grinding from 60 to 70. It is staying at 55 when patch 2.1 hits. And now if you calculate the DPS that Druids get with this in mind, a colossal issue surfaces: our relative DPS decreases as we get better gear. Staff of Beasts: 55 + 298/14 = 76.7dps, 5.6% lower than Honed Voidaxe Dreamer's Dragonstaff: 55 + 423/14 = 85.2dps, 8.5% lower than HW Claymore Terestian's Stranglestaff: 55 + 647/14 = 101.2dps, 10.9% lower than Despair Wildfury Greatstaff: 55 + 731/14 = 107.2dps, 11.8% lower than World Breaker Pillar of Ferocity: 55 + 826/14 = 114dps, 12.6% lower than a 130.5dps weapon Staff of Disintegration: 55 + 135.4dps, 14.4% lower than Devastation If you extrapolate this to an item with iLevel of infinity, this disastrous pattern will continue. Now one must ask the question: Why? My theory is that the item designers are simply following the pattern set forth by the EOD and MOUL: put enough FAP on the item so that the base DPS + FAP equals the DPS of an equivalent dagger, axe, etc. This would have worked if one-handers were still used as caster-based maces/daggers did not change their base DPS due to changes in iLevel. This is not the case for caster staves; their base DPS does increase. This leads to the problem, however, that Druids do not get to dual wield... Now what about the HOBF and AQWH? Yes, their base DPS matches that of an equivalent weapon even without the FAP. I believe that this is because a] they wanted these items to remain useful to other classes (cough Warriors) or b] these were the first items they ever made with FAP and they had no idea what to do with them. So my question to EJ is: Why do you think our weapons are reverse-scaling? Do you think Blizzard is aware of this issue? Do you think that FAP, overall, is a band-aid over a gushing wound and should be scraped altogether for true weapon scaling? Note: Before you make yourself look dumb and post about our talents like Naturalist and self-buffs like Cat Form remember that other classes also have talents and self-buffs. (Weapon Mastery, Dual Wield Specialization and Berserker Stance, Fel Armor are just a few examples)