Originally Posted by Boevis
That's blatantly ignoring both my math and current itemization. Pick any ilevel and slot (slots if you want to talk weapons) and compare a "Feral item" and a "Rogue Item", under average conditions only a couple exemplary items (ex. Clefthoof Leggings) will outperform their rogue counterpart. Point for point, rogues get more DPS from AP than druids do from an equal ivalue of Str.
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1) Your math, to the extent it's correct (which I'll touch on in a minute) doesn't prove anything about scaling. You gain somewhat less dps per point of AP than a rogue does. However, you also do less damage than a rogue, so while the absolute difference in damage will increase, the percentage of a rogue's damage you will hold steady; in particular, it will converge to the percentage by which your scaling is inferior to a rogue's. So, for instance, if 13.67% number you cited as the difference between druid scaling in Str vs Rogue scaling in AP holds across all matters of druid scaling (which it may or may not), you will converge on doing 86.33% the damage of a rogue. In order to prove a true scaling problem you need to prove not only that the druid receives less benefit per item budget than a primary dpser does, but also that the ratio of druid dps to primary DPS class dps decreases as gear improves. Which you haven't.
2) The basis of your comparison was the rogue DPS spreadsheet version 2.2.4, which overestimates my damage output by roughly 20%. You'll pardon me if I'm slightly skeptical about damage numbers drawn from it. Using, for instance, the Rogue Gear spreadsheet, which, in my (admittedly biased) opinion gives a better assessment of real DPS, we find that in order to increase my unbuffed dps by 47.75, I would need to upgrade both my weapons by 15.6 dps, 30% more than your numbers indicated. Which, when plugged through the rest of your calculations, makes druids come off somewhat less poorly.
3) Now, even neglecting the above problems for a moment, lets posit that your numbers are correct, and that a 12 dps upgrade to each hand of a rogue is equal DPS to 231 Feral Attack Power. This would mean that to scale as well, you'd need about 19 FAP for each 1 dps a rogue could increase his weapons to stay at 100% damage, and 17 FAP for each rogue weapon dps to stay at 90% damage.
So, lets take a minute and compare some items; say a early-to-mid SSC drop to a good Mount Hyjal drop. In particular, lets take a look at, say, Talon of Azshara (Tidewalker), Blade of Infamy (Anatheron, Mount Hyjal), Wildfury Greatstaff (SSC Trash), and Pillar of Ferocity (Anatheron, Mount Hyjal). Well, lets see.. the swords differ by 6.5 dps, and mods are comperable... and Talon is slower. So all you're really gaining is the 6.5 dps, and arguably not even that much. Meanwhile, the staff picks up 95 FAP, plus 47 Str which coverts to another 103 FAP, for a total of 198 AP upgrade, which works out to roughly... 30 AP per point of dps upgrade for the rogue, meaning that you would scale, by these calculations, roughly 160% as well as rogues based on your estimates of the conversions.
Now, explain to me how Druids aren't scaling as well? I think I'm missing something. Maybe I'm just dumb or something.
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Did I say that they should anywhere? Please don't put words in my mouth, as I've clearly stated in this thread already that I agree with the "90% of rogues DPS" or whatever it is.
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Well, see, I was operating under the assumption that you were disagreeing with something I actually said, which had nothing to do with scaling; my comments were purely based off druids doing some portion of a rogue's dps, with no regards to scaling. Apparently you weren't responding to anything I actually said, but rather to something you thought I said, in which case I sincerely apologize for assuming that your argument actually made sense, and responding accordingly.
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The problem is, as I've shown, is that as we progress further in the game, Druids will be doing less DPS compared to Rogues than they were before. If Druids are doing 90% of Rogue DPS now, but are doing 80% of Rogue DPS in Hyjal, then something is wrong, if it's class mechanics or itemization or both, doesn't matter, having a class scaling downward relative to other classes as you increase progression is just poor design.
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If that were actually the case, yes, that would be a problem. However, I maintain that there hasn't been any evidence to date that this is actually the case. And even if there is: great. That's a problem. But it has nothing to do with what I was actually talking about, which was about the "all eggs in one basket" argument.