Elitist Jerks - View Single Post - Feral Attack Power: When good intentions go dumb.

Roywyn · 05/23/07, 7:02 PM

One of the problems is that all the BC feral weapons are two-handers, and you compare them to two-handers. Casters and healers have +spells and +healing on their weapons, both 1-handers and 2-handers, that eat only in the DPS of their weapons without using item budget.
Let's have a look at that, shall we?

TLDR - 1-handers =/= 2-handers !

Let's start out with level 70 blues, ilvl 115:

Starlight Dagger (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27543) - 41.4 DPS, +121 spells
Hammer of the Penitent (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28257) - 41.4 DPS, +227 healing
Reflex Blades (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28392) - 71.7 DPS

Warpstaff of Arcanum (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28341) - 63.0 DPS, +121 spells
Seer's Cane (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29133) - 62.8 DPS, +228 healing
Draenic Wildstaff (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27877) - 63.0 DPS, +423 feral ap
Greatsword of Forlorn Visions (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28367) - 93.3 DPS

So, casters sacrifice 30.3 DPS for 121 spell power, 4 (3.99339...) spell power per DPS. Healers sacrifice 30.3 DPS for 227 healing, 7.5 (7.491479...) healing per DPS. Druids sacrifice 30.3 DPS for 423 feral ap, 14 (13.96039...) feral ap per DPS.

Sacrificed DPS is the same for one-handers and two-handers, and it's based on reducing the DPS of a level-equivalent 1-handed DPS weapon to ~41.4 DPS.
41.4 is the DPS of ilvl 63 1-handers that require level 58 to use. Dal'Rend's and Finkle's Skinner for example.
A 2-hander will sacrifice the same amount of DPS as a one-hander. Since 2-hander DPS rises faster than 1-hander DPS, this means that the physical DPS of caster/healer/druid 2-handers will increase. Not because blizzard hates you, but because DPS reduction is determined by 1-handers.

Fast forward to SSC and TK, ilvl 128 epic items:
(I found no caster staves or healer maces at ilvl 128)

Fang of the Leviathan (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30095) - 41.3 DPS, +209 spells, 209/4 = 52.25; 41.3 + 209/4 = 93.55 DPS
Talon of Azshara (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30082) - 93.7 DPS

Ethereum Life-Staff (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29981) - 69.4 DPS, +386 healing 386/7.5 ~ 51.5; 69.4 + 386/7.5 = 120.9 DPS
Wildfury Greatstaff (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30021) - 69.4 DPS, +731 feral ap, 731/14 ~ 52.2; 69.4 + 731/14 = 121.6 DPS
World Breaker (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30090) - 121.8 DPS

Hm, maybe my calculated number for healing:dps is a bit off, or the healing staff is lacking ~5 healing. Let's just assume that the healing staff has ~52.2 DPS sacrificed as well (instead of the 386/7.5=51.5 I calculated there).

The result is that caster, healer and druid weapons have the same DPS increase in their stats over a level 60 blue that a 1-handed weapon for melee DPS has over their ilvl 63 blue weapons from T0 zones.
Casters, healers, ferals and 1-handed melee get a 52.2 DPS upgrade over their old T0 level 1-handers. Looks pretty balanced to me.

Is it fair that we get +4 spells, +7.5 healing, +14 feral ap for one point of sacrifices DPS? Do some classes/specs benefit from this ratio, or should the ratio be tweaked? And why isn't it based on 2-handers (my answer would be that 1handed caster weapon would go below 0 physical DPS sooner or later), or should 2-hander DPS scale 1:1 with 1-hander DPS?

I don't know, and I can't tell either. The game has become far too complex to balance everything around each and everything. I can only state how things probably were set up with this mechanic, and how it's perfectly balanced in its kind of way.

TLDR
Feral, caster and healing weapon bonus scales exactly like level-equivalent 1-handed weapons. They scale exactly like everyone who uses 1-handers, i.e. tanks, fury warriors, enhancement shaman and rogues.
The reason that the physical DPS of 2-handers with sacrificed DPS increases is simply that 2-hander DPS rises faster than 1-hander DPS.
The increased pysical DPS on those 2-handers does not mean that you wasted spell/healing/feral power on it.
It means that you got exactly the spell/healing/feral power you deserve (from 1-hander comparison), but the remaining physical DPS of the 2-handers is simply higher than that of a 1-hander.

That's at least my stance how I see the scaling balanced.

05/23/07, 7:02 PM	#107
Roywyn Bald Bull Roywyn Gnome Mage <Hibernation> Argent Dawn (EU)	One of the problems is that all the BC feral weapons are two-handers, and you compare them to two-handers. Casters and healers have +spells and +healing on their weapons, both 1-handers and 2-handers, that eat only in the DPS of their weapons without using item budget. Let's have a look at that, shall we? TLDR - 1-handers =/= 2-handers ! Let's start out with level 70 blues, ilvl 115: Starlight Dagger (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27543) - 41.4 DPS, +121 spells Hammer of the Penitent (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28257) - 41.4 DPS, +227 healing Reflex Blades (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28392) - 71.7 DPS Warpstaff of Arcanum (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28341) - 63.0 DPS, +121 spells Seer's Cane (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29133) - 62.8 DPS, +228 healing Draenic Wildstaff (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27877) - 63.0 DPS, +423 feral ap Greatsword of Forlorn Visions (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28367) - 93.3 DPS So, casters sacrifice 30.3 DPS for 121 spell power, 4 (3.99339...) spell power per DPS. Healers sacrifice 30.3 DPS for 227 healing, 7.5 (7.491479...) healing per DPS. Druids sacrifice 30.3 DPS for 423 feral ap, 14 (13.96039...) feral ap per DPS. Sacrificed DPS is the same for one-handers and two-handers, and it's based on reducing the DPS of a level-equivalent 1-handed DPS weapon to ~41.4 DPS. 41.4 is the DPS of ilvl 63 1-handers that require level 58 to use. Dal'Rend's and Finkle's Skinner for example. A 2-hander will sacrifice the same amount of DPS as a one-hander. Since 2-hander DPS rises faster than 1-hander DPS, this means that the physical DPS of caster/healer/druid 2-handers will increase. Not because blizzard hates you, but because DPS reduction is determined by 1-handers. Fast forward to SSC and TK, ilvl 128 epic items: (I found no caster staves or healer maces at ilvl 128) Fang of the Leviathan (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30095) - 41.3 DPS, +209 spells, 209/4 = 52.25; 41.3 + 209/4 = 93.55 DPS Talon of Azshara (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30082) - 93.7 DPS Ethereum Life-Staff (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29981) - 69.4 DPS, +386 healing 386/7.5 ~ 51.5; 69.4 + 386/7.5 = 120.9 DPS Wildfury Greatstaff (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30021) - 69.4 DPS, +731 feral ap, 731/14 ~ 52.2; 69.4 + 731/14 = 121.6 DPS World Breaker (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30090) - 121.8 DPS Hm, maybe my calculated number for healing:dps is a bit off, or the healing staff is lacking ~5 healing. Let's just assume that the healing staff has ~52.2 DPS sacrificed as well (instead of the 386/7.5=51.5 I calculated there). The result is that caster, healer and druid weapons have the same DPS increase in their stats over a level 60 blue that a 1-handed weapon for melee DPS has over their ilvl 63 blue weapons from T0 zones. Casters, healers, ferals and 1-handed melee get a 52.2 DPS upgrade over their old T0 level 1-handers. Looks pretty balanced to me. Is it fair that we get +4 spells, +7.5 healing, +14 feral ap for one point of sacrifices DPS? Do some classes/specs benefit from this ratio, or should the ratio be tweaked? And why isn't it based on 2-handers (my answer would be that 1handed caster weapon would go below 0 physical DPS sooner or later), or should 2-hander DPS scale 1:1 with 1-hander DPS? I don't know, and I can't tell either. The game has become far too complex to balance everything around each and everything. I can only state how things probably were set up with this mechanic, and how it's perfectly balanced in its kind of way. TLDR Feral, caster and healing weapon bonus scales exactly like level-equivalent 1-handed weapons. They scale exactly like everyone who uses 1-handers, i.e. tanks, fury warriors, enhancement shaman and rogues. The reason that the physical DPS of 2-handers with sacrificed DPS increases is simply that 2-hander DPS rises faster than 1-hander DPS. The increased pysical DPS on those 2-handers does not mean that you wasted spell/healing/feral power on it. It means that you got exactly the spell/healing/feral power you deserve (from 1-hander comparison), but the remaining physical DPS of the 2-handers is simply higher than that of a 1-hander. That's at least my stance how I see the scaling balanced. Last edited by Roywyn : 05/23/07 at 7:18 PM.