Originally Posted by dukes
Boevis, I was saying that you can get away with having the first use a normal cycle, and the second use a pure-shred cycle, and have even more DPS than one being an actual mangle-bitch. The point is, if the one who is using a pure shred cycle is paying attention, they shouldn't have to waste any energy or anything else (as the maximum downtime for mangle 'should' be ~4 seconds) - obviously Mag isn't the best fight to use as an example in the first place, because (a) We use a similar strat (but last tank gets no.3 MD and I grab that to kill third) and I've never had a problem with using full DPS gear, and (b) because of earthquake and clicking, you can't really have a proper cycle in the first place.
I also assume neither of your ferals have Savage Fury, which both me and the other feral in the guild does, and it means mangle isn't as much of a hit to DPS in the first place (and if you continually have the same person being mangle bitch, you should consider getting them to spec it). The ashtongue talisman also comes out as being better than bloodlust if you do end up having a mangle bitch doing 2 per cycle, so if you can get it then that person should be using it (very few guilds that can, but its worth pointing out).
Edit: Just checking armoury: Who is vanquashing and why does he only have 1 point in shredding attacks? Even for PvP its probably the best talent you can get :/
It also appears Cowking, Praetorius and Vanquashing all have savage fury, while you don't (not sure if all of them are mains or not, but they're all the 70 ferals I could find in your guild). In that case, you end up with them having:
((305.46 * 2.25)+405)*1.1*1.3 = 1561.97
((305.46 * 1.6)+264)*1.1*1.2 = 993.61
Difference = 568.36.
It's not as clear cut as that anyway, but I'll leave it there as I'm still waking up atm.
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Using only 1 mangle on the mangle bitch, and all shreds on the other druid doesn't really work because as you said in the other post our cycle times change. There's so very few fights where you could sync your cycles to the point where you could have a normal cycle and a pure shred, a single dodge and you're 2 seconds off, if they crit one more time than you, next cycle will be 2 off, etc.Taking luck and skill into account, it's entirely possible for one druid to get even 2 full cycles ahead of the other druid, that's quite a bit of lost mangle time.
Vanquashing is usually our 2nd Feral, he's taking a break for the time being so Cowking (who usually heals) is filling the spot. Vanq is Bulgarian, and I've given up trying to explain logic and math to them (we have a fairly large bulgarian presence, either they just like pissing me off, or they just don't seem to get the concept of cycles for DPS). With Vanquashing, I usually run my own cycle just because I don't trust him to do mangles, With Cowking, I already have him doing the mangles since his gear isn't as good so I figured SF+Worse gear would make the difference, forgot to do the math on SF though since I figured no Tank would take that over other talents.
And jesus, thanks for bringing up Vanq's talents ... I'll have to make sure that's a PvP spec, since 0/3 SotF is pretty retarded for tanking.
Edit: On the note of DPS, my guild rarely has feral druids on a pure DPS duty, even on Leothrass I end up tanking just because our Prot Warriors need to wear DPS gear to kill their inner demons. The few times Vanq or Cow have been on full DPS duty, or I cut out my tanking time (like on maulgar) we're pretty consistantly 750-900 DPS depending on fight conditions. Personally I think we should be at 75%-90% of a rogue instead of the 60%-75% I'm usually seeing (low end being in OT gear) But I'm much happier with the feral situation than I was after the 1.8 "Class review"