Elitist Jerks - View Single Post - Can you have a guild with casual and harcore raiders?

Cottonface · 08/25/07, 11:45 AM

To the question: "Can you have a guild with casual and hardcore raiders?", the answer is yes. However, it is a yes with several restrictions upon it, mainly, that casual players are placed outside any influence of actual raiding and progression, as you cannot rely on casual players to be neither active nor dedicated enough to provide solid progressive play. That being said, a guild is more than just progression raiding from 18 till 24, it is also a social community, and within one such, a mere casual player both should and can have a place.

In TBC, raiding requires 25 players, hence each class is more or less restricted by the raid setup, if the guild wants to scale gearing up raiders alongside progressing. This became very visible early in TBC, as guilds began raiding Karazhan, which only requires 10 players, and for many guilds this caused drama and the usual jalousy. While I don't like the term hardcore raider as such, it requires players who are 110% commited to progress. That means they always have pots, flasks, consumables ready, always are willing to go the extra distance, always have enchants / gems on gear; and more important, are willing to wipe endlessly on a boss, while going thru the learning curve. In my experience, a HC raider is driven by progress, not by epics. It is the achivement of downing a boss, of being part of 25 players who's coordinated efforts come together, which is the glory; gear is secondary and will come eventually.

You cannot, nor should, expect such an attitude from a casual player. In accordance with Valjean, players who cannot play every day - or at least most of the raiding days - nor will above average when they play, shouldn't be considered a raiding player, and a raiding guild should not rely on such players at all. They are casual players, and are - in lack of a different word - second class players. However if a player only can play 2-3 days a week, but when he does is truly dedicated and good, he of course should be part of the raiding players.

In the end, what matterts is (1) A functional number of players within a class to maintain continous raiding in terms of progression, and (2) that these players are above average or better.

08/25/07, 11:45 AM	#29 (permalink)
Cottonface Glass Joe Cottonface Human Rogue <Clarity> Xavius (EU)	To the question: "Can you have a guild with casual and hardcore raiders?", the answer is yes. However, it is a yes with several restrictions upon it, mainly, that casual players are placed outside any influence of actual raiding and progression, as you cannot rely on casual players to be neither active nor dedicated enough to provide solid progressive play. That being said, a guild is more than just progression raiding from 18 till 24, it is also a social community, and within one such, a mere casual player both should and can have a place. In TBC, raiding requires 25 players, hence each class is more or less restricted by the raid setup, if the guild wants to scale gearing up raiders alongside progressing. This became very visible early in TBC, as guilds began raiding Karazhan, which only requires 10 players, and for many guilds this caused drama and the usual jalousy. While I don't like the term hardcore raider as such, it requires players who are 110% commited to progress. That means they always have pots, flasks, consumables ready, always are willing to go the extra distance, always have enchants / gems on gear; and more important, are willing to wipe endlessly on a boss, while going thru the learning curve. In my experience, a HC raider is driven by progress, not by epics. It is the achivement of downing a boss, of being part of 25 players who's coordinated efforts come together, which is the glory; gear is secondary and will come eventually. You cannot, nor should, expect such an attitude from a casual player. In accordance with Valjean, players who cannot play every day - or at least most of the raiding days - nor will above average when they play, shouldn't be considered a raiding player, and a raiding guild should not rely on such players at all. They are casual players, and are - in lack of a different word - second class players. However if a player only can play 2-3 days a week, but when he does is truly dedicated and good, he of course should be part of the raiding players. In the end, what matterts is (1) A functional number of players within a class to maintain continous raiding in terms of progression, and (2) that these players are above average or better.