Elitist Jerks - View Single Post - Options for reducing time investment in the raid game

• Whiteknight · 11/07/07, 4:30 AM

Personally I'd value any positive changes that would reduce the time not actually playing the game - the prep time.

I've really like the trend in the new 25-man dungeons that places vendors inside the dungeon. BT in particular is well done. Even when you're working on Illidan, you can simply port half way, buy reagents, repair and then port up to the last room for the boss. This saves an immense amount of wasted time running back, running out of candles/repair bots/w/e.

Travel time to dungeons really costs too. The BT neck is a fantastic idea for reducing this time.
Travel time when dead is an important concept too - BT/Hyjal and TK all have graveyards really close to the dungeon. SSC not so well designed - lots of time is wasted running back in the cases where you wipe in non-recoverable situations.

If there's two things I could change about Hyjal, it would be to introduce a similar teleport-item-reward to port to CoT. And the ability to zone out of the dungeon without killing yourself. Not being able to zone out is an insane waste of time, for such a trivial thing. It makes swapping folk in and out a lot harder than it could be. An item to port you to CoT would solve this problem too.
Perhaps a little too 'out-there' but if your hearthstone was similar to your key-bag and you got a new destination for every raid dungeon you defeated, I'd be pretty happy.

I like the winged approach to dungeons for saving time. For example, Hyjal has portals into the 3 different camps - saves pointless running around.
I really liked Naxx's layout where you could choose which part of the dungeon to go to. You can save time by picking the wing which best suits your raid group makeup that day.

Some stuff could be done to make loot distribution easier, or more clear-cut. The hardest items to distribute are the ones that are desired by most people. Tier set tokens are usually needed by 1/3 of your raid per token. The Kael quest item is difficult to distribute. Making items more specific and expecting more to rot makes distribution faster, but goes counter to a lot of the progress we've seen in boss loot table itemization which counters waste. Still I think there's some middleground to be had - better attention to how raids are actually constructed and itemization that closer matches what people typically need - e.g. more +dmg/heal weapons, less MS weapons. If Bliz simply doubled the number of caster weapon drops, handing out weapons would be a lot less timeconsuming and more closely balanced considering the number of casters vs 2-hand melee in raids.

Illidari marks are a fantastic idea for saving time. I hate the amount of time we waste farming gold for repairs. Dropping consumable tokens in dungeons is a fantastic trend and I think bliz should really push the idea further. I'd like to see them add things like herb nodes in Hyjal, Sporefish/Crawdad fishing nodes in SSC, etc. I'd like to see the death penalty reduced to 5% durability loss or removed entirely. 100g in repairs for a single wipe night is a lot of time spent farming to recover those losses. In the same vein, taking durability loss on your shield for blocking or your weapon for hitting should probably be toned down. Our prot pally keeps 2 shields for Hyjal mainly because his shield literally breaks from full durability half way through the dungeon if we don't wipe.

Perma-dead trash is also a nice touch. I know bliz really likes their respawning trash as a pacing tool, but if some of it stayed dead like the post emps trash in AQ40 that'd be a fairly big time (and morale) saver when learning the dungeon.

My comments aren't focused on the length of time people raid, because I do think that's a function of players' schedules. However I do think a lot could be done to increase the enjoyment of the raid game by reducing, toning-down or eliminating those elements that detract from the actual play time in the dungeon.

11/07/07, 4:30 AM	#18 (permalink)
• Whiteknight Bald Bull Silverstreak Night Elf Warrior <Lunacy> Proudmoore	Personally I'd value any positive changes that would reduce the time not actually playing the game - the prep time. I've really like the trend in the new 25-man dungeons that places vendors inside the dungeon. BT in particular is well done. Even when you're working on Illidan, you can simply port half way, buy reagents, repair and then port up to the last room for the boss. This saves an immense amount of wasted time running back, running out of candles/repair bots/w/e. Travel time to dungeons really costs too. The BT neck is a fantastic idea for reducing this time. Travel time when dead is an important concept too - BT/Hyjal and TK all have graveyards really close to the dungeon. SSC not so well designed - lots of time is wasted running back in the cases where you wipe in non-recoverable situations. If there's two things I could change about Hyjal, it would be to introduce a similar teleport-item-reward to port to CoT. And the ability to zone out of the dungeon without killing yourself. Not being able to zone out is an insane waste of time, for such a trivial thing. It makes swapping folk in and out a lot harder than it could be. An item to port you to CoT would solve this problem too. Perhaps a little too 'out-there' but if your hearthstone was similar to your key-bag and you got a new destination for every raid dungeon you defeated, I'd be pretty happy. I like the winged approach to dungeons for saving time. For example, Hyjal has portals into the 3 different camps - saves pointless running around. I really liked Naxx's layout where you could choose which part of the dungeon to go to. You can save time by picking the wing which best suits your raid group makeup that day. Some stuff could be done to make loot distribution easier, or more clear-cut. The hardest items to distribute are the ones that are desired by most people. Tier set tokens are usually needed by 1/3 of your raid per token. The Kael quest item is difficult to distribute. Making items more specific and expecting more to rot makes distribution faster, but goes counter to a lot of the progress we've seen in boss loot table itemization which counters waste. Still I think there's some middleground to be had - better attention to how raids are actually constructed and itemization that closer matches what people typically need - e.g. more +dmg/heal weapons, less MS weapons. If Bliz simply doubled the number of caster weapon drops, handing out weapons would be a lot less timeconsuming and more closely balanced considering the number of casters vs 2-hand melee in raids. Illidari marks are a fantastic idea for saving time. I hate the amount of time we waste farming gold for repairs. Dropping consumable tokens in dungeons is a fantastic trend and I think bliz should really push the idea further. I'd like to see them add things like herb nodes in Hyjal, Sporefish/Crawdad fishing nodes in SSC, etc. I'd like to see the death penalty reduced to 5% durability loss or removed entirely. 100g in repairs for a single wipe night is a lot of time spent farming to recover those losses. In the same vein, taking durability loss on your shield for blocking or your weapon for hitting should probably be toned down. Our prot pally keeps 2 shields for Hyjal mainly because his shield literally breaks from full durability half way through the dungeon if we don't wipe. Perma-dead trash is also a nice touch. I know bliz really likes their respawning trash as a pacing tool, but if some of it stayed dead like the post emps trash in AQ40 that'd be a fairly big time (and morale) saver when learning the dungeon. My comments aren't focused on the length of time people raid, because I do think that's a function of players' schedules. However I do think a lot could be done to increase the enjoyment of the raid game by reducing, toning-down or eliminating those elements that detract from the actual play time in the dungeon.