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Taowth · 01/31/08, 6:18 AM

Yea Malan, except the beginning of that sentence was about using healing weapon/healing shield as a fake out, not talking about starting with any shield.

For 5s, starting with a shield when you're missing 1 opponent isnt that great unless its 4 dps, (or you're 4dps) as the extra healer can offset the tiny bit of stun from cheap shot.

For 3s and 2s though, starting with a shield when one is missing (and the other 2 have no MOTW) is definatly what I do most of the time depending on the comp (if we're not going to target the rogue I wouldnt shield up cause we're just going to charge anyways, so that rushes most rogues and stun time cant be used as well from repositioning etc).

Most people dont realize how gimped our dps output becomes when you take off the OH, as without flurry we swing very slow with only 1 active use skill. The hitting power of the MH and MH WFs remain, but the lack of flurry uptime hurts more than most realize, and the mitigation from a shield is only around 17% or so (i'm not logged in at the moment so i dont have exacts). So while its worthwhile to use for an opening vs a rogue in the smaller brackets, or vs double physical teams like hunter/war rogue/rogue rogue/war etc, other than that its more of a hinderance.
Warriors can still mortal strike, heroic, etc etc when putting on a shield, but we're kind of stuck.

But yea panny thats another big factor for the fakeout not really working very well. I just see it so rarely its the ES I mainly look at the distinguish elemental or resto. ^.^

In terms of your comp issues, I wouldnt say that 3s that isnt 3dps needs a strong ranged. But there does need to be one of a couple factors, either defensive dispels, offensive lockdown, high cc, or 1 cc and 1 ranged.

War/Druid/Shaman doesnt have any of them, and thus since both shaman and war are melee with only 1 snare break themselves, and the only cc coming from the druid, you cant cc enough of their team for the duration of the snares to really be able to do anything to their team if their healer is good. If you cant kill someone with the initial charge, you're likely to be controlled to death.
But you dont need to do a complete revamp, you can do the switch of druid for the paladin, or the warrior for the hunter, either would work because then with the paladin, theres freedom for 1 of you, cleanses for the other, and thus you gain a bit of longevity at the sacrifice of CC. The paladin's positioning skills will be key though since both of you will be chasing targets. With the war for hunter switch, you still have the CC and roots, and snares will only effect half your dps.

My own 3s is 2 melee and healer, we do ok against snares because my 2nd melee is a rogue, so he provides that offensive lockdown. So while we may be snared individually sometimes we're also getting the target stunned in place other times etc.
The comp does have problems, as yours did, against mages, and because of the double melee we cant target mages first practically ever, not because of iceblock, thats minimal (blind/focus shocking when the mage blocks would prevent most heals unless a pld bubbles for it), its that theres so many snares that combined with blink its just not really viable for us to get him.
The shatter combo hurts big, some things to do in a nova if you cant break it is get a shock off on the mage, it'll do more than shocking a heal from the healer, thats not always possible to do though cause it might be on cd, so you could then spam lesser heal wave on yourself. If you get counterspelled, that interrupts the mage's combo timing, giving your healer more time to get you topped, as well as soaks a cs from the mage that might go to your healer. If you're getting hit enough to knock it back significantly then the nova should break from that, so either way you should be able to get a heal off at least, and even that 1300 is better than 0 when you cant do much and are about to take big damage.

01/31/08, 6:18 AM	#256 (permalink)
Taowth Von Kaiser Taowth Tauren Shaman <Death Monkey> Cho'gall	Yea Malan, except the beginning of that sentence was about using healing weapon/healing shield as a fake out, not talking about starting with any shield. For 5s, starting with a shield when you're missing 1 opponent isnt that great unless its 4 dps, (or you're 4dps) as the extra healer can offset the tiny bit of stun from cheap shot. For 3s and 2s though, starting with a shield when one is missing (and the other 2 have no MOTW) is definatly what I do most of the time depending on the comp (if we're not going to target the rogue I wouldnt shield up cause we're just going to charge anyways, so that rushes most rogues and stun time cant be used as well from repositioning etc). Most people dont realize how gimped our dps output becomes when you take off the OH, as without flurry we swing very slow with only 1 active use skill. The hitting power of the MH and MH WFs remain, but the lack of flurry uptime hurts more than most realize, and the mitigation from a shield is only around 17% or so (i'm not logged in at the moment so i dont have exacts). So while its worthwhile to use for an opening vs a rogue in the smaller brackets, or vs double physical teams like hunter/war rogue/rogue rogue/war etc, other than that its more of a hinderance. Warriors can still mortal strike, heroic, etc etc when putting on a shield, but we're kind of stuck. But yea panny thats another big factor for the fakeout not really working very well. I just see it so rarely its the ES I mainly look at the distinguish elemental or resto. ^.^ In terms of your comp issues, I wouldnt say that 3s that isnt 3dps needs a strong ranged. But there does need to be one of a couple factors, either defensive dispels, offensive lockdown, high cc, or 1 cc and 1 ranged. War/Druid/Shaman doesnt have any of them, and thus since both shaman and war are melee with only 1 snare break themselves, and the only cc coming from the druid, you cant cc enough of their team for the duration of the snares to really be able to do anything to their team if their healer is good. If you cant kill someone with the initial charge, you're likely to be controlled to death. But you dont need to do a complete revamp, you can do the switch of druid for the paladin, or the warrior for the hunter, either would work because then with the paladin, theres freedom for 1 of you, cleanses for the other, and thus you gain a bit of longevity at the sacrifice of CC. The paladin's positioning skills will be key though since both of you will be chasing targets. With the war for hunter switch, you still have the CC and roots, and snares will only effect half your dps. My own 3s is 2 melee and healer, we do ok against snares because my 2nd melee is a rogue, so he provides that offensive lockdown. So while we may be snared individually sometimes we're also getting the target stunned in place other times etc. The comp does have problems, as yours did, against mages, and because of the double melee we cant target mages first practically ever, not because of iceblock, thats minimal (blind/focus shocking when the mage blocks would prevent most heals unless a pld bubbles for it), its that theres so many snares that combined with blink its just not really viable for us to get him. The shatter combo hurts big, some things to do in a nova if you cant break it is get a shock off on the mage, it'll do more than shocking a heal from the healer, thats not always possible to do though cause it might be on cd, so you could then spam lesser heal wave on yourself. If you get counterspelled, that interrupts the mage's combo timing, giving your healer more time to get you topped, as well as soaks a cs from the mage that might go to your healer. If you're getting hit enough to knock it back significantly then the nova should break from that, so either way you should be able to get a heal off at least, and even that 1300 is better than 0 when you cant do much and are about to take big damage. Last edited by Taowth : 01/31/08 at 6:34 AM.