javelin

This train of thought came from a few posts in the WoTLK post, as well as some older discussions on this board about new player progression through endgame without the benefit of the initial 'learning' instances most of us oldtimers went through.

With the prospect of a new expansion coming out in the near future, I've been sort of wondering about the progression of difficulty and coordination required in these new, as-yet-unseen raids. While I'm certainly not about to speculate on specifics for any, I'm going to take a stab and say that, like encounters in TBC, they will exhibit a higher degree of complexity and sophistication than the instances and encounters of the preceding expansion or core game (with, in my personal opinion, the exception of 4 Horsemen, but I simply say that because I have not done the Kael encounter or any of BT, so there might be something better in there). What I'm wondering is if that will end up hurting the guilds and, ultimately, the franchise, if they continue a development of the curve in the fashion they have without offering something like a 'soft reset' of the curve for new players.

It's safe to say that most everyone here, previous to TBC coming out, had experienced the gamut of end-game instances from MC to at least near the end of AQ40, (more likely at a minimum Patchwerk), and so have honed a set of skills learned specifically from each instance and it's encounters: MC taught tanks how to tank and what to really expect and how to prepare for resistance fights, BWL taught basic situational awareness and taught healers how to heal, AQ40 taught DPS classes how to DPS, threat sensitivity, and expanded upon our understanding of location and situational awareness; and finally Naxxramas really and truly showed raids how to work as a cohesive unit and to utilize unconventional methods for victory, by forcing us to utilize our abilities for maximum effect.

There's really none of that easing in, in TBC. Kara felt, to me, like a jumbling of the concepts from BWL and AQ40, with a MUCH broader range of error and forgiveness. The encounters, however, seemed to anticipate a certain level of competence in all parties present basing on the assumption that you had learned the lessons of at least MC and BWL previously. For a lot of new people who had bought the game only after TBC came out, that simply wasn't the case, and it showed in their ability in the encounters there. Karazhan is EASY. It really is, outside of one or two extremely special cases. However, having gone into the place with groups where this is their first instance with more than 5 people, I watched any number of them screw up doing things that should have become reflex waaaaay back in the Core, and it frustrates them. It's still doable, but it seems to come at a significantly higher price for them, since they have to piece together the fundamental concepts of tanking, healing, and DPSing as well as multi-target fights on their own, without the benefit of individual encounters specifically designed to teach each one of those concepts individually, and then building on them. Personally, I think it's that, more than anything, that is the main cause of the dramatic increase in PvP; personal opinion, but it seems to me that people simply want something where it doesn't matter if you're necessarily bad at your class or not, because odds are you'll be going against people just as bad as you, so it's a more even playing field, and somewhat more forgivable.

What I wonder is, maybe it might be in Blizzard's, and raider's, best interests if that same sort of learning curve is re-introduced, bu at an accelerated pace in WoTLK. Instead of forging huge 25-man instances (or even 10-mans) that gradually introduce these fundamental concepts (you can't tank with a 2-hander, watch your damn aggro, healing is a marathon not a race) in 5-mans specifically designed to tackle these concepts in a narrow, intensified manner might result in a new generation of players that are at least more prepared for the kinds of situations we'd expect to see in end-game encounters, allowing a larger cross-section of players to experience what really are very well-done and highly entertaining encounters, as well as soften attrition curves for the established guilds.

The flipside is this: will experienced guilds get bored with going through the curve again? After all, we've already learned through trial by fire. Rehashing the same stuff we learned for new people might feel like a downgrade in entertainment, right? That's why I think that, say, the first 10-man (probably that Utegard place) might need to be somewhere along the same complexity as Kara/Gruul's, since by this point, the newer players will have had time to absorb these fundamental concepts and allow for victories to come easier than they were for utterly new players in TBC, giving them a taste of raiding, and allowing the victories to fuel further pushing, creating more sophisticated raiders over time, while not dumbing it down very much for experienced veterans that might still be growing into 10 levels (and a new class's) worth of abilities and talents.

What are your guys' thoughts on all this, if any?

I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should chellenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.--Mark Twain