Originally Posted by Wraithlin
So when the fat kid turns up to your college team team and says: "Hey I want to be on the varsity team, I pay the same school fees as everyone else why ahouldnt I be allowed ?" What are you gonna do ?
Will you tell the rest of your team "Hey he isnt lazy, he just has a hard time running around, and yeah he may not play too well, but man, has anyone ever tried teaching him? Sure he never trains, and he only started playing a month ago, and I know he never even watches games, but you know thats hard work and he has a short attention span and is allergic to putting any effort in. Despite all that I really think we should appeal to the sports governing body because, damnnit, the rules need to change so that this guy can get on our varisty team and have that experience."
This isnt basic education, people do not have any right to be good or to get rewards from WoW just because they bought the game and logged on; they have to work at improving and earning those rewards, even leveling takes some effort from the player. Further, developement resources are finite, what you spend building quests for speical people, you take from something worthwhile.
The correct analogy for WoW is not school, it is sport. Its an optional, team activity where you get out what you put in. Sure you might be naturally talented, or perhaps youwill never get past an amateur level because you dont have the time to train 5 times a week, but the sport owes you nothing and the rules wont change so you can play in the professional leagues because you think that paying your league membership each year gives you the right to have that experience.
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This is bullshit. Nobody in this thread is suggesting that either A) people deserve to be in the top-end raiding guilds, or B) people deserve the best items in the game simply because they're paying the same amount. Trying to frame the argument in that manner is deceptive and annoying.
You want the correct analogy? Say the super-talented foreign kid shows up to your baseball team. The kid is ripped, can run fast as hell, but has basically never seen baseball before. Has no idea of the rules, the concepts or anything. Strikes and balls? Outs and stolen bases? He's clueless. In this analogy, you're basically advocating the "Fuck him" approach. You're saying that he knows the basics, should be able to figure out the advanced by osmosis, and it's only his own fault if he doesn't become a star, given that he has all the physical tools. People advocating for tutorials are saying, give the kid a frickin' coach or two already, and develop those natural talents. When to hit and run, where to try to hit the ball in different strike counts, different outs, and with different numbers of people on base.
You argue that this is a waste of developer time, but I disagree there as well. The raiding scene especially needs an influx of new people in order to continue to propagate. How many raiders do you know that have just burnt out? Only to be replaced by healers, tanks, dps that you have to re-train. Why not provide some interesting, useful and rewarding training quests? Hell, turn it into a mini-game. Something to compete against your fellow guildies for high scores.
There's actually some precedence for this in the game already. The First Aid quest where you have to heal all the wounded soldiers in Theramore Keep is actually a pretty good trainer. Situational awareness, hotkey or action-bar your bandages. Learn how to throw bandages on people that are close to you with low health. I didn't beat this quest the first time. I had no idea what was coming, I wasn't prepared for the awareness, or quickness that I needed, and it just didn't happen. More quests along this line, only aimed at specific classes and specs.
I guess what I really don't understand is the fairly vehement opposition to the very idea of tutorials? Does it threaten your elitism? "I had to do it the hard way, so everyone else should too?" I mean lets face it, the developers are going to do with their time what they see fit. Wouldn't a thread like this be better propagated with some kickass ideas for new quests? Or even 5/10 man trash and bosses that teach it?
Edit: I don't think that telling people "Go find it on the web" is as intuitive as you're making it out to be. Every game I've played until WoW, and indeed the early part of WoW, having to look shit up on the internetz was basically akin to cheating. I couldn't figure it out myself given the constructs of the game? Someone else managed to and posted the information me. So either the game developer fucked up by making the game too hard, or I was a stupid/lazy bastard who couldn't figure it out given the information presented to me in the game. Why is WoW magically different. What inherently in the game makes it such that looking up stuff on the web is not only accepted, but encouraged? How is this a failure of the players instead of a failure of design?