Elitist Jerks - View Single Post

Warmike · 05/16/08, 2:46 PM

After skimming through most of this thread, it amazes me that there is such strict comparison between PVP and PVE accomplishments.

Getting PVP gear takes more time than many people seem to believe. But in any case, the rating system does not change how fast the players get gear. 1800+ rated teams still get the gear as fast as they always did. This rating change, however, only serves to keep players who chose certain classes a year ago from getting new PVP gear. It's not only about skill in arena. In raiding, just about all classes can succeed, In arena, that is not so true. Hunters and other classes lose by default, regardless of spec. If they are going to tie ratings into gear, they need to make the setting balanced for all. Resto druid and MS warrior 2v2 vs holy pally and MM hunter? If both teams have similar gear and are equally skilled...is the end result pretty much pre-determined by class choice? I tend to think so. You need to either be extremely skilled or have a team that carries you to succeed with certain classes. In raids, you are not usually at a disadvantage because of a class choice you made a year ago.

Seriously, if ratings were wiped from the arena system, at 400 arena points per week (very conservative), it would STILL take 32 weeks to get full S3 gear right now.

Vengeful Breastplate 1875
Vengeful Gauntlets 1125
Vengeful Helm 1875
Vengeful Leggings 1875
Vengeful Shoulders 1500
Weapon 3750
Stat Stick 1000

Does anyone think 8 months is too fast to get that gear for the average player? I've seen people walk out of raids with 2-3 new pieces of gear per night, often those that were not even there when the group was learning the content (Pugged players or what have you). The only difference is that you can kind of estimate how long it will take to get PVP gear, whereas in raids it could take 1 night or many months to get what you want.

I don't think it's fair to require ratings for most PVP gear when that gear can already have a substantial time frame to get in comparison to raid gear (can take a new lv 70 1 week of Kara to get 2-3 new epics for example). To get arena gear you need to get the points each week, sometimes 8-10 weeks for 1 weapon, and there is really no honest way to get around the waiting period (outside of point buying which is also done in raids to an extent). In raids however, a person can get lucky and get that shiny new piece in their first night (unless there's strict DKP requirements).

The current system also let's the better geared teams keep the equally skilled, yet newer entry teams/players from achieving their goals each season. It feels like, if you didn't start with max gear from previous seasons, trying to catch up in the present system is next to impossible.

In closing, before my ratings get brought up. I do arena as a hunter with my feral druid wife. We fight hard each week to maintain 1500-1600. Are we elite PVPers? No. But we only get 300 points a week. Even without ratings on gear, do you know how long it takes us to get a new piece? Should we not be able to get 50% of the S4 gear simply because of our classes/specs? Should I leave my wife and play with a person that made a better class choice? The same would never be called into question in raids. All classes can succeed with equal skill outside PVP.

My only other option is to stop PVPing as there are no rewards for my maxed out pool of honor/points with too low of a rating to use them. That just doesn't seem like a good business model.

05/16/08, 2:46 PM	#92 (permalink)
Warmike Glass Joe Morohtar Night Elf Hunter <Gno Gnomes Trading Co> Lightbringer	After skimming through most of this thread, it amazes me that there is such strict comparison between PVP and PVE accomplishments. Getting PVP gear takes more time than many people seem to believe. But in any case, the rating system does not change how fast the players get gear. 1800+ rated teams still get the gear as fast as they always did. This rating change, however, only serves to keep players who chose certain classes a year ago from getting new PVP gear. It's not only about skill in arena. In raiding, just about all classes can succeed, In arena, that is not so true. Hunters and other classes lose by default, regardless of spec. If they are going to tie ratings into gear, they need to make the setting balanced for all. Resto druid and MS warrior 2v2 vs holy pally and MM hunter? If both teams have similar gear and are equally skilled...is the end result pretty much pre-determined by class choice? I tend to think so. You need to either be extremely skilled or have a team that carries you to succeed with certain classes. In raids, you are not usually at a disadvantage because of a class choice you made a year ago. Seriously, if ratings were wiped from the arena system, at 400 arena points per week (very conservative), it would STILL take 32 weeks to get full S3 gear right now. Vengeful Breastplate 1875 Vengeful Gauntlets 1125 Vengeful Helm 1875 Vengeful Leggings 1875 Vengeful Shoulders 1500 Weapon 3750 Stat Stick 1000 Does anyone think 8 months is too fast to get that gear for the average player? I've seen people walk out of raids with 2-3 new pieces of gear per night, often those that were not even there when the group was learning the content (Pugged players or what have you). The only difference is that you can kind of estimate how long it will take to get PVP gear, whereas in raids it could take 1 night or many months to get what you want. I don't think it's fair to require ratings for most PVP gear when that gear can already have a substantial time frame to get in comparison to raid gear (can take a new lv 70 1 week of Kara to get 2-3 new epics for example). To get arena gear you need to get the points each week, sometimes 8-10 weeks for 1 weapon, and there is really no honest way to get around the waiting period (outside of point buying which is also done in raids to an extent). In raids however, a person can get lucky and get that shiny new piece in their first night (unless there's strict DKP requirements). The current system also let's the better geared teams keep the equally skilled, yet newer entry teams/players from achieving their goals each season. It feels like, if you didn't start with max gear from previous seasons, trying to catch up in the present system is next to impossible. In closing, before my ratings get brought up. I do arena as a hunter with my feral druid wife. We fight hard each week to maintain 1500-1600. Are we elite PVPers? No. But we only get 300 points a week. Even without ratings on gear, do you know how long it takes us to get a new piece? Should we not be able to get 50% of the S4 gear simply because of our classes/specs? Should I leave my wife and play with a person that made a better class choice? The same would never be called into question in raids. All classes can succeed with equal skill outside PVP. My only other option is to stop PVPing as there are no rewards for my maxed out pool of honor/points with too low of a rating to use them. That just doesn't seem like a good business model. Last edited by Warmike : 05/16/08 at 2:56 PM.