rooj

That is exactly what I mean. If increased haste allows us to cast more MFs with more effective ticks.. then guess what, it benefits more from haste than does MB and VT. (We agree that SWD and SWP don't benefit much from haste correct?).

The question then becomes does increasing haste create higher dmg output from MB vs MF? Once again, if you look at WWS and compare low haste higher dmg SPs vs lower dmg higher haste SPs, you will see that MF's % output dmg increases as haste increases compared to MB.

Sadly, I don't have the gear to show the difference or I would use Dr.Boom and show the % difference, but Tedv did make a post in the Help me melt faces that showed his numbers on brutallus as compared to numbers when he had less haste.

Now you make the very relevant point that MB' dmg over cast time is much higher than MF, which seems to indicate that haste should affect MB more than haste. While the dmg over CASTTIME is much higher, the damage over time is actually much lower because of MB's cooldown. IE Haste ONLY affects the casttime which is a small % of time between MB casts. At 5/5 imp MB the cooldown is still 5 seconds compared to a 1.5 second cast. Haste affects ALL of the time between casts on MF.

Let's take a quick look, (untalented)
MB at rank 11 is 1.5 second cast, with an 8 second cooldown for 708-748 dmg
MF at rank 7 is a 3 second channel no cooldown and 538 dmg.

Haste doesn't affect the 8 second cooldown, only the 1.5 second cast, while haste does affect the 3 second channel and there is no cooldown.

Without adding any haste ratings or +dmg gear, you have MB every 9.5 seconds = 708-748 dmg.
MF over the same period of time = 1614 dmg.

Your can reduce the casttime element of MB, but at 100% haste you will get .75 casts with still that 8 second cooldown.
while at 100%haste you will get a MF channel at 1.5 seconds.

MB with 100% haste = .75 cast time + 8 second cooldown= 8.75 seconds= 708-748 dmg in a 9 second window
MF with 100% haste = 1.5 second channels, which means 6MFs over 9seconds which = 3228 dmg.

Of course we should be doing the calculation at 5/5 Imp MB which reduces the CD by 2.5 seconds which means we have a cooldown of 5.5 seconds rather than 8.

With no haste this means

MB 0 haste = 1.5 sec cast with 5.5 second cooldown = 708-748 dmg in 7 seconds
MF 0 haste = 3 second channel with no cool down means 2 full channels and 1/3 of another = 1255 dmg per 7 seconds

MB with 100haste = .75 cast with 5.5 second cooldown = 708-748 dmg over 6.25 seconds
MF with 100haste = 1.5 second channels which mean 4 full channels and no ticks = 2152 over 6.25 seconds.


How exactly does MF not scale better with haste?

There may be a miscalculation with respect to the tick calculations on MF, but even if was off by a significant margin, I don't see how MF DOESN'T scale much better with haste than does MB.

The HUGE discrepancy between haste's affects on MB and MF is the primary reason that haste ratings start to affect dps at the same rate as +dmg at higher levels, even though the primary benefit of haste goes mostly to only 1 of our spells in the rotation, while +dmg benefits every single one of our spells in our rotation.

BTW, this does NOT mean that we should skip casting MB, it just means that MF scales much better with haste. Skipping MBs would mean we would lose out on the extra 748 dmg over the .75 seconds (which at 100% haste is only 1 tick of MF ), but it is because during the 5sec cooldown of MB we can now cast 3 channels of MF that haste gets so much benefit for us.