Originally Posted by uh...ok
I really don't see what about our new talents makes the new Disc any better at Arena than it currently is. It seems to not really have changed at all (from a PvP perspective), at least not compared to the strong PvP-related buffs that many other specs and classes have been receiving.
Edit: To clarify, while the new PWS-related talents are great, the usefulness of PWS in PvP is greatly limited by the Weakened Soul effect, which makes most of the talent boosts we're getting situational at best. It's not clear to me that the intent was to buff the Disc tree for PvP at all.
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Hmmmm, sorry but the new changes to disc are really quite powerfull. Saying that PWS is limited by the 13second weakened soul effect is shortsighted. PWS is one of our most important spells in PvP. I don't think anyone will be skipping reflective shield anymore. The improved PWS that returns mana is by far the biggest change, but grace, penance (the channeling is not a problem for skilled players), rapture and the combined reduced CD on PI are fairly big changes.
It isn't at all clear that Disc is going to be "the" spec for PvP either. While Blessed Resilience is still inferior to the new Focused Will, the difference is much smaller than before. Guardian Spirit can substitute for Pain Supression, particularly when there is more than one healer on the team.
What Disc really has going for it in PvP is free Power Word: Shields. Penance in its currently form is incredibly subpar for PvP unless you are using it to do damage.
Holy has so much healing throughput, especially with the 60% hasted heals proc and Test of Faith. Lightwell also looks incredibly good, especially in smaller brackets; 40,000 healing for 440 mana every 3 minutes that can be used while a healer is locked out.
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Guardian spirit is never going to be as good for PvP as PS/PI, especially now that PI has such a short CD.
Penance is actually a very viable heal, in the 2v2 bracket, not for your self, but for both your partner and for off DPS.
Grace is also very improtant. 6% less damage/more healing on your partner is a very very big deal in arena and in hair moments it can help you as well.
The new lightwell is actually an important advantage though its hard to say without actually putting to the test as mobility is an issue.If its really good, we will see hybrid holy/disc specs, but I think borrowed time will make ppl go deep disc for PvP.
Originally Posted by Kortar
1. I used hps for the same reason I used Greater Heal: it's the standard metric. If you have an argument for using a different metric, then present it. I'm not going to do the math for you on every possible combination of effects a Priest can launch in an attempt to prove whatever point you're trying to make.
2. The 1.24 scaling factor is the haste bonus from Improved Holy Concentration, taken over time. Presuming you never cast Binding Heal, you have an 1 - (0.84 ^ 3) = 0.407296 chance of having proc'd Clearcasting on one of the three previous heals. Since the haste bonus is 60%, this means you have 24.43776% haste over time. Or simplified, 24%.
3. Integrating overheal. Your numbers seem to be just made up off the top of your head. Each 1% critical adds 0.5% for Holy and 0.95% for Discipline in raw throughput. If you want to calculate overheal into the mix, you'll need raw data from WotLK content parses - which I'm pretty sure you don't have and I'm positive I don't have. Also, saying Divine Aegis and PW:S do not overheal is a bit like saying Renew doesn't overheal. While literally true, these effects still generate wasted healing - overhealing is a conflict between two heals and even though damage meters aren't comprehensive enough to track the interaction properly, when analyzing healing strategies you have to recognize the existance of the second heal.
Grace cannot overheal because it doesn't heal in the first place. It's like noting that Spiritual Healing can't overheal. True, but why mention it?
4. I've read the entire discussion, and the "20%" figure cited is based on a slightly different set of talents.
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1) Maximal HPS never was and never will be a standard metric. Its a mostly academic premise. Sustained HPS is the standard metric. For a tank healer sustained HPS with suitable overheal is what matters, but equally important is how much this healers abilities, can help smooth out spikes and mitigate insta-gib possibilities. If you can't handle the math and modelling don't do it at all. Posting meaningless arithmetic then trying to draw conclusions from it, is wasting people's time.
3) I have no idea where you got this stuff.
a) Crit is 0.5% per point. This is patently false. Crit has higher overheal. That is the way it goes. From my own personal parses from ZA and SSC over several raids of having an elemental shaman, instead of a resto shaman in my group (3% more crit) I find that the real value of crit is 0.3% per point.
The only way for divine aegis to overheal is by overriting itself. We have every reason The chance that divine aegis will overwrite in a non trivial fight is the chance that you will get back to back crits (0.25*0.25 = 0.0625) multiplied by the chance that your tank won't get a hit in 2.5 seconds, which means it changes during each fight but will certainly be below 5%. That leads to a 0.7-0.75% value for disc crit.
b) Wasted healing. There is no such thing as wasted healing that is a fallacy. If you are trying to talk about heal competition then that is another matter entirely. Renew does not worsen heal competition, unless the other healers don't know how to do their job. Spells like renew, aegis and PWS do not increase the overheal of other healers. They smooth out damage, thus reducing the overheal safety margin. They are *good* for heal competition. An unpredictable 60% haste proc on the other hand is a killer for heal competition. Your argument is competely absurd. If you cant include overheal anddamage reduction in your calculations, don't do those calculations at all. They are less than useless.
c) Grace reduces tank damage by a % amount. If your tank is taking 1k HPS grace reduces tank damage by 60HPS. If your tank is taking 5k DPS it reduces tank damage by 300 HPS. So it helps bridge the gap. If you are stipulating tha you will need more than one healers and they will need their absolude maximum HPS, the DPS reduction from grace compared to the effective healing output of all priests is going to be huge.
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In terms of Borrowed Time, this certainly makes PW:S quite a bit better. However, it's still going to be outscaled by Flash Heal in Holy. The reduction in cast time is nice, but reducing the cast time on cooldown abilities doesn't help the cooldown abilities so much as it gives you more time to do other things. Since virtually everything that falls under the rubric 'other things' that Discipline could do is either inferior to Holy or only marginally superior, the cast time reduction just isn't all that worthwhile.
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Sorry this is not likely. 50% coefficient on a 1sec instant which returns more mana that it takes to cast it has nothing to do with flash heal. You fail to realise that the cast time reduction on cooldown abilities increases the burst potential of combinations. The 1 second cooldown allows PWS to be incorporated in a gheal sequence and INCREASE overall HPS rather than decrease it. This whole paragraph is a flight of fancy, not a real arguement.