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Roywyn · 08/08/08, 8:22 AM

Post should reflects the patch that made Burnout 50% and made Living Bomb useful.
It does not take into account that Fingers of Frost was changed to 4s - but that barely makes any difference for 51+ Frost since they can use Deep Frost.
It is a slight nerf to 0/30/37+4 variants that have to use an Ice Lance or skip their Shatter Combo.

Arcane Blast spam is completely with this change as it costs 3000 mana and more per cast. Hopefully an oversight.
Torment of the Weak is not considered until we know how it works.

First, some general stuff.

1) Crit still sucks.
With a high 3k spell power, 21% base crit (before molten armour), 10% gear haste and a 0/50/21 spec with CSD and EO, we get 362.25% crit damage.

At that point, 1 crit = 0.93 dmg, 1 haste = 1.06 dmg, 1 hit = 1.49 dmg.

Looking further, it requires 4k spell power until +crit gems are as good as +dmg gems for the highest crit damage spell, even at a relatively low crit rate.
The higher your crit rate is, the more spell power you need to break even.

2) 33 Arcane specs are dead. It's "50 Arcane or bust" now.
Kind of obvious, I know. To get spell power, you need 47 in Arcane, leaving you at most 24 for the other trees.
Since Netherwind Presence is better than any anything from 22-24 in Fire/Frost, you're at 50 Arcane.

Even if Arcane Barrage cannot proc Missile Barrage, it is still a key stone for Arcane rotations.
You can however completely forego it for a build like 50/3/18 that focuses solely on Arcane Blast spam.

3) Pet specs and fight length
Pet specs are strong for fights up to 2 minutes and for fights 6-8 minute fights.
The reason is just cooldown length. You start the fight with 2 Elementals. Then you recast one at ~3:15 and one at ~5:40. (Depends on points in it.)
When that ~5:40 runs out, Cold Snap comes back up and you can resummon it.

With 3/3 Imp. WE, you spend 0:00-2:00 and 5:48-7:48 with 2 minutes pet uptime, thus making it strong for 2 and 8 minute fights, but weaker for 4:30-5:30 fights.

Now for the spec comparisons at 3k spell power, 21% base crit, 10% haste, hit cap, 700 spi, 1k int.
Assuming CSD+Elemental Oath, the old WoA/ToW totems, no Moonkin Aura, Ret aura, no Frozen Runeweapon, 13% CoE, Misery.
I'm using a 6 minute fight thoughout all calculations.

I also assume Scorch/Winter's Chill are up.
Scorch is a must. If nobody in the raid has it, someone respecs. Simple as that.
Winter's Chill is a must have if you have at least 4 Fire/Frost/Arcane users.
A warlock might count as 2 casters due to the absurd benefit of Empowered Imp.

Having 1 Mage, 1 Moonkin and 1 Destruction Warlock (Empowered Imp) seems like a standard setup that makes Winter's Chill break even and offer a lot of raid mana from Improved Water Elemental.
Winter's Chillforces the use of WC.

I haven't included Focus Magic yet, mostly because it's bugged. Non-magic attacks eating charges being the major issue.
If that was fixed, then it would be a 5% (low gear) to 3.5% (high gear) increase to raid spell damage, while reducing your own DPS by about 15%.
So, about 10-15% more DPS at the cost of 11 talent points if you're not arcane and a bucketload of mana.

Every expects some adjustments there however.

4) Fire specs

Using Living Bomb as a Fire DoT is a very valuable addition to Fire DPS.
Some of my calculationg might be a little bit wonky, here is the odd part:

Before LB, Hot Streak should be used with Fireball+FireBlast combos to get a better chance on continuing your Hot Streak.
With LB however, this is may be slight downgrade. It depends on gear and crit.
The higher your spell power and crit is, the more likely is it that Fireball+FireBlast combost do not provide more damage.

Ignite bugging is a problem. If Ignite always bugs and you lose the FB and the FiBl Ignite equally often, you get about the same damage from cycling as from spamming.
I'm not considering FB*3-FiBl rotations that use FB+FiBl on Hot Streak, because you usually won't have your FireBlast cooldown up when you'd need it.

Those calculations also disreagard the Fireball DoT. Ticks for about 45 with 0/51/20.
It adds up to 20 DPS when spamming Fireball, depending on haste.
In cycles however, you can gain only ~12 more DPS in a rotation like FB*4/FiBl*2/LB.

5157 - Without Winter's Chill: New 50% Burnout 0/51/20 Fireball spam, with FB/FiBL on Hot Streak
5803 - Without Winter's Chill: Spam Fireball*5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs

(5249) - Old 25% Burnout 0/50/21 Fireball spam, even through Hot Streak
(5426) - Old 25% Burnout 0/50/21 Fireball spam, with FB/FiBL on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs

5595 - New 50% Burnout 0/51/20 Fireball spam, even through Hot Streak
5798 - New 50% Burnout 0/51/20 Fireball spam, with FB/FiBL on Hot Streak
5620 / 5709 - In case you get exactly one of the 2 Ignites to bug out 100% / 50% of the time.

6042 - New 50% Burnout Wait-Fireball-Scorch-FireBlast rotation under 100% crit, assuming no Ignite bugs
5466 / 5754 - In case you get exactly one of the 3 Ignites to bug out 100% / 50% of the time.

6191 - Spam Fireball*5/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak
6257 - Spam Fireball*4/FireBlast*2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs
6365 - Spam Fireball*5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs

6385 - Spam Fireball*5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs

(5874) - Old 33/38/0 Fireball spam
(5982) - Old 33/38/0 rotation of Fireball*3+FireBlast, assuming Ignite never bugs.

5) Frost Specs

Assuming all this without Frozen Runeweapon. If it comes back as a Runeforge Enchant, it'll likely be the best choice for raid DPS.
The DPS value of frost would then be increased by 10%, but have to be reduced by whatever the Death Knight loses from not taking a better Runeforge Enchant.
On the bright side, Runeforge Enchants do not require talents and can easily be changed before entering a dungeon. It's also possible to have two weapons with different Runeforge Enchants.
IF it comes back at all, that is.

Deep Freeze has an extremely high base damage. It's more DPS than Frostbolt when used on a frozen target until you break 5k spell power.

Due to its cast time (1.5s/instant), that high DPCT doesn't make it too attractive for Fingers-of-Frost procs.
With FoF is changed to 2 casts, you should use Deep Freeze on your second cast when you have less than 3k spell power.

"Deep Frost with FoF + 0.4*Frostbolt with 10% chance on FoF" = "Frostbolt with FoF" breaks even at around 3ek spell damage.

Also, I don't assume it counts as freezing unfreezable targets. If it does (need FoF to work to see it) in the future, it'll be the spell of choice to cast it on FoF procs to make the target considered frozen.

The listed values currently don't account for the 1.4% cast time loss to cast Water Elemental.
I'll fix that later, just keep in mind that you need to drop that amount to compare to non-pet specs.

935 - Waterbolt spam during WE uptime; assuming the WE can be hitcapped.

4847- Frostbolt with Deep Freeze and instant Fireballs in 0/18/53
4848 - Frostbolt with instant Fireballs in 0/18/53
5345 - Frostbolt with Deep Freeze and instant Fireballs in 0/18/53 and 53% pet uptime
5347 - Frostbolt with instant Fireballs in 0/18/53 and 53% pet uptime

With Frozen Runeweapon, those values are as follows:
1028 - WB; 5273 - FrB/DF/FB, 5821 - with 53% pet uptime; 5276 - FrB/FB, 5825 - with 53% pet uptime

6) Frostfire Specs

For 0/30/37+4 type specs, Frostfire Bolt is the only useful spell in that spec.
For 0/18/53, Frostfire Bolt is worse than Frostbolt until you reach 40% crit before Winter's Chill/Shatter.
For 0/50/20+1 types, Frostfire Bolt is usually better than Fireball.

Assuming no Frozen Runeweapon and no double-dipping for standard numbers.

Those calculations also disreagard the Frostfire Bolt DoT which scales with gear. Ticks for about 300 with 0/51/20.
It doesn't get to tick usually, but it will whenever you use Scorch to debuff or FireBlast/LivingBomb/WaterElemental.
You can gain up to ~65 more DPS in a rotation like FFB*4/FiBl*2/LB.

5150 - No Winter's Chill: New 50% Burnout Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/50/21
5706 - No Winter's Chill: Spam FrostfireBolt*4/FireBlast*2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; including FFB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs

5504 - Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/34/37

5154 - Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/30/41
5574 - Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/30/41 with 45% pet uptime

(5385) - Old 25% Burnout Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/50/21
5666 - New 50% Burnout Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/50/21

6340 - New 50% Burnout Wait-FrostfireBolt-Scorch-FireBlast rotation under 100% crit, assuming no Ignite bugs
5736 / 6038 - In case you get exactly one of the 3 Ignites to bug out 100% / 50% of the time.

6198 - Spam FrostfireBolt*5/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak
6272 - Spam FrostfireBolt*4/FireBlast*2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs
6307 - Spam FrostfireBolt*5/LivingBomb, use FrostfireBolt+FireBlast on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs

6329 - Spam FrostfireBolt*5/LivingBomb, use FrostfireBolt+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FFB DOT; assuming no Ignite bugs
6338 - Spam FrostfireBolt*4/FireBlast*2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; including FFB DOT; assuming no Ignite bugs

*7955 - Frostfire Bolt that double-dips from CoE/Scorch/WC (as 0/51/20, casting FFB*5/LB, FFB+FiBl on HS)

7) Arcane specs

I'll just list the DPS values of the spells first. Cycles will depend on what will proc Missile Barage.
Also note that spammed Arcane Blast has higher DPM than Arcane Barrage and Arcane Missiles.

I'm leaving out "Torment of the Weak" until we know how it works. It's not worth Slow's GCD/Mana from how it looks.
Specs are 53/18/0, i.e. taking Imp. Scorch instead of Icy Veins. Add ~3% for specs with Frost fillers.

6922- Arcane Barrage (16 DPM)
4418 - Arcane Missiles (17 DPM)
8723 - MBAM, Arcane Missiles under Missile Barrage

4378 - Arcane Blast, single cast (29 DPM)
4639 / 4666 / 4813 - Frostbolt / Fireball / Frostfire Bolt in their specialised 51/*/* specs (24/18/24 DPM).
Note that the FFB spec cannot pick IV and has to drop 2 points from Arcane Flow or Mind Mastery.

Let's do some cycles. They do not include that you lose damage from casting Scorch every 30 seconds, to make different specs/cycles equal.
Notice that the cycles are not very attractive even with WC, and they'd drop even lower without it.

// If Arcane Barrage can proc MBAM:
// 6138 - Cycle (ABar-FrB)*3-ABar-MBAM (18 DPM) with frost off-tree; haste capped
// 6008 - Cycle (ABar-FB)*3-ABar-MBAM-FiBl (16 DPM) with Imp. Scorch
// 6103 - Cycle (ABar-FFB)*3-ABar-MBAM (19 DPM) with an impossible spec; haste capped
// (6229) - PoM exploiting ABar-AM (20 DPM) for permanent +30% crit; includes Missile Barrage procs

If Arcane Barrage cannot proc MBAM:
5684 - Cycle (ABar-AB)*7-ABar-MBAM-FiBl (19 DPM); haste capped.
5821 - Cycle (ABar-FrB)*7-ABar-MBAM (19 DPM) with frost off-tree, is haste capped
5727 - Cycle (ABar-FB)*7-ABar-MBAM-FiBl (17 DPM); spec includes Imp. Scorch
5811 - Cycle (ABar-FFB)*7-ABar-MBAM (19 DPM) with an impossible spec
(5894) - PoM exploiting ABar-AM (20 DPM) for permanent +30% crit

If we can make Arcane Blast spam work with sufficient gear:
(Note that an (ABar-AB*2) spammed cycle under haste is not useful since ABar is worse DPS and DPM.)

With WC:
7661 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/21/0 (17 DPM)
7881 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/3/18 (18 DPM)

Without WC:
7179 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/21/0 (15 DPM)
7385 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/3/18 (17 DPM)

8) AoE comparisons before caps, in Damage per Cast time

1822 - Arcane: Arcane Explosion
2581 - Arcane: Blizzard (14 frost)

2050 - Frost: Blizzard (8 fire)
2183 - Frost: Blizzard with 15% Frostbite (8 fire)

1448 - Fire: Arcane Explosion
1648 - Fire: Flamestrike (direct damage)

2011 - Fire: Blizzard (14 frost)
2272 - Fire: Flamestrike (including DoT)

3231 - Fire: Instant Flamestrike (direct damage)
3372 - Blastwave
3469 - Dragon's Breath
3842 - Fire: Instant Flamestrike (including DoT)

7694 - Living Bomb

9) Other caster classes

Those are just rough approximations, bear in mind that different classe usually are in different states of completion/polish.

3993 - Shadow Priest with a generous use of MF/MB/SWD/VT/SWP

4886 - Elemental Shaman as 43/28/0 spec
5093 - Elemental Shaman as 52/0/19 spec

5375 - Balance Druid with two Glyphs and Starfire/Wrath with Moonfire ticking

6043 - Shadow Destruction Warlock (early approximation as 7/13/51) without CoD
6816 - Fire Destruction Warlock (early approximation as 7/13/51) without CoD

10) TL;DR Spec summary

5347 - Frostbolt with instant Fireballs in 0/18/53 and 53% pet uptime; 3/3 IWE for raidwide mana
5574 - Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/30/41 with 45% pet uptime; no mana from the WE

5706 - Without Winter's Chill: Spam FrostfireBolt*4/FireBlast*2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; including FFB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs
5803 - Without Winter's Chill: Spam Fireball*5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs

5818 - Spam Fireball as 0/51/20, with FB/FiBL on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs
5821 - Cycle (ABar-FrB)*7-ABar-MBAM (19 DPM) with frost off-tree; is haste capped

6329 - Spam FrostfireBolt*5/LivingBomb, use FrostfireBolt+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FFB DOT; assuming no Ignite bugs
6338 - Spam FrostfireBolt*4/FireBlast*2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; including FFB DOT; assuming no Ignite bugs
6385 - Spam Fireball*5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs

6922- Arcane Barrage (16 DPM) as filler spell

7881 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/3/18 (18 DPM)
*7955 - Frostfire Bolt that double-dips from CoE/Scorch/WC (as 0/51/20, casting FFB*5/LB, FFB+FiBl on HS)

[Edit]:
Added Living Bomb and AoE comparison

Debuff clarifications, added info for setups without Winter's Chill.
Fixed a typo on the crit damage number.

08/08/08, 8:22 AM	#4020 (permalink)
Roywyn Bald Bull Roywyn Gnome Mage <Hibernation> Argent Dawn (EU)	Numbers for the new specs - Living Bomb, 50% Burnout / 2 Frostfingers Post should reflects the patch that made Burnout 50% and made Living Bomb useful. It does not take into account that Fingers of Frost was changed to 4s - but that barely makes any difference for 51+ Frost since they can use Deep Frost. It is a slight nerf to 0/30/37+4 variants that have to use an Ice Lance or skip their Shatter Combo. Arcane Blast spam is completely with this change as it costs 3000 mana and more per cast. Hopefully an oversight. Torment of the Weak is not considered until we know how it works. First, some general stuff. 1) Crit still sucks. With a high 3k spell power, 21% base crit (before molten armour), 10% gear haste and a 0/50/21 spec with CSD and EO, we get 362.25% crit damage. At that point, 1 crit = 0.93 dmg, 1 haste = 1.06 dmg, 1 hit = 1.49 dmg. Looking further, it requires 4k spell power until +crit gems are as good as +dmg gems for the highest crit damage spell, even at a relatively low crit rate. The higher your crit rate is, the more spell power you need to break even. 2) 33 Arcane specs are dead. It's "50 Arcane or bust" now. Kind of obvious, I know. To get spell power, you need 47 in Arcane, leaving you at most 24 for the other trees. Since Netherwind Presence is better than any anything from 22-24 in Fire/Frost, you're at 50 Arcane. Even if Arcane Barrage cannot proc Missile Barrage, it is still a key stone for Arcane rotations. You can however completely forego it for a build like 50/3/18 that focuses solely on Arcane Blast spam. 3) Pet specs and fight length Pet specs are strong for fights up to 2 minutes and for fights 6-8 minute fights. The reason is just cooldown length. You start the fight with 2 Elementals. Then you recast one at ~3:15 and one at ~5:40. (Depends on points in it.) When that ~5:40 runs out, Cold Snap comes back up and you can resummon it. With 3/3 Imp. WE, you spend 0:00-2:00 and 5:48-7:48 with 2 minutes pet uptime, thus making it strong for 2 and 8 minute fights, but weaker for 4:30-5:30 fights. Now for the spec comparisons at 3k spell power, 21% base crit, 10% haste, hit cap, 700 spi, 1k int. Assuming CSD+Elemental Oath, the old WoA/ToW totems, no Moonkin Aura, Ret aura, no Frozen Runeweapon, 13% CoE, Misery. I'm using a 6 minute fight thoughout all calculations. I also assume Scorch/Winter's Chill are up. Scorch is a must. If nobody in the raid has it, someone respecs. Simple as that. Winter's Chill is a must have if you have at least 4 Fire/Frost/Arcane users. A warlock might count as 2 casters due to the absurd benefit of Empowered Imp. Having 1 Mage, 1 Moonkin and 1 Destruction Warlock (Empowered Imp) seems like a standard setup that makes Winter's Chill break even and offer a lot of raid mana from Improved Water Elemental. Winter's Chillforces the use of WC. I haven't included Focus Magic yet, mostly because it's bugged. Non-magic attacks eating charges being the major issue. If that was fixed, then it would be a 5% (low gear) to 3.5% (high gear) increase to raid spell damage, while reducing your own DPS by about 15%. So, about 10-15% more DPS at the cost of 11 talent points if you're not arcane and a bucketload of mana. Every expects some adjustments there however. 4) Fire specs Using Living Bomb as a Fire DoT is a very valuable addition to Fire DPS. Some of my calculationg might be a little bit wonky, here is the odd part: Before LB, Hot Streak should be used with Fireball+FireBlast combos to get a better chance on continuing your Hot Streak. With LB however, this is may be slight downgrade. It depends on gear and crit. The higher your spell power and crit is, the more likely is it that Fireball+FireBlast combost do not provide more damage. Ignite bugging is a problem. If Ignite always bugs and you lose the FB and the FiBl Ignite equally often, you get about the same damage from cycling as from spamming. I'm not considering FB3-FiBl rotations that use FB+FiBl on Hot Streak, because you usually won't have your FireBlast cooldown up when you'd need it. Those calculations also disreagard the Fireball DoT. Ticks for about 45 with 0/51/20.* It adds up to 20 DPS when spamming Fireball, depending on haste. In cycles however, you can gain only ~12 more DPS in a rotation like FB4/FiBl2/LB. 5157 - Without Winter's Chill: New 50% Burnout 0/51/20 Fireball spam, with FB/FiBL on Hot Streak 5803 - Without Winter's Chill: Spam Fireball5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs (5249) - Old 25% Burnout 0/50/21 Fireball spam, even through Hot Streak (5426) - Old 25% Burnout 0/50/21 Fireball spam, with FB/FiBL on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs 5595 - New 50% Burnout 0/51/20 Fireball spam, even through Hot Streak 5798 - New 50% Burnout 0/51/20 Fireball spam, with FB/FiBL on Hot Streak 5620 / 5709 - In case you get exactly one of the 2 Ignites to bug out 100% / 50% of the time. 6042 - New 50% Burnout Wait-Fireball-Scorch-FireBlast rotation under 100% crit, assuming no Ignite bugs 5466 / 5754 - In case you get exactly one of the 3 Ignites to bug out 100% / 50% of the time. 6191 - Spam Fireball5/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak 6257 - Spam Fireball4/FireBlast2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs 6365 - Spam Fireball5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs 6385 - Spam Fireball5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs (5874) - Old 33/38/0 Fireball spam (5982) - Old 33/38/0 rotation of Fireball3+FireBlast, assuming Ignite never bugs. 5) Frost Specs* Assuming all this without Frozen Runeweapon. If it comes back as a Runeforge Enchant, it'll likely be the best choice for raid DPS. The DPS value of frost would then be increased by 10%, but have to be reduced by whatever the Death Knight loses from not taking a better Runeforge Enchant. On the bright side, Runeforge Enchants do not require talents and can easily be changed before entering a dungeon. It's also possible to have two weapons with different Runeforge Enchants. IF it comes back at all, that is. Deep Freeze has an extremely high base damage. It's more DPS than Frostbolt when used on a frozen target until you break 5k spell power. Due to its cast time (1.5s/instant), that high DPCT doesn't make it too attractive for Fingers-of-Frost procs. With FoF is changed to 2 casts, you should use Deep Freeze on your second cast when you have less than 3k spell power. "Deep Frost with FoF + 0.4Frostbolt with 10% chance on FoF" = "Frostbolt with FoF" breaks even at around 3ek spell damage. Also, I don't assume it counts as freezing unfreezable targets. If it does (need FoF to work to see it) in the future, it'll be the spell of choice to cast it on FoF procs to make the target considered frozen. The listed values currently don't account for the 1.4% cast time loss to cast Water Elemental. I'll fix that later, just keep in mind that you need to drop that amount to compare to non-pet specs. 935 - Waterbolt spam during WE uptime; assuming the WE can be hitcapped. 4847- Frostbolt with Deep Freeze and instant Fireballs in 0/18/53 4848 - Frostbolt with instant Fireballs in 0/18/53 5345 - Frostbolt with Deep Freeze and instant Fireballs in 0/18/53 and 53% pet uptime 5347 - Frostbolt with instant Fireballs in 0/18/53 and 53% pet uptime With Frozen Runeweapon, those values are as follows: 1028 - WB; 5273 - FrB/DF/FB, 5821 - with 53% pet uptime; 5276 - FrB/FB, 5825 - with 53% pet uptime 6) Frostfire Specs* For 0/30/37+4 type specs, Frostfire Bolt is the only useful spell in that spec. For 0/18/53, Frostfire Bolt is worse than Frostbolt until you reach 40% crit before Winter's Chill/Shatter. For 0/50/20+1 types, Frostfire Bolt is usually better than Fireball. Assuming no Frozen Runeweapon and no double-dipping for standard numbers. Those calculations also disreagard the Frostfire Bolt DoT which scales with gear. Ticks for about 300 with 0/51/20. It doesn't get to tick usually, but it will whenever you use Scorch to debuff or FireBlast/LivingBomb/WaterElemental. You can gain up to ~65 more DPS in a rotation like FFB4/FiBl2/LB. 5150 - No Winter's Chill: New 50% Burnout Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/50/21 5706 - No Winter's Chill: Spam FrostfireBolt4/FireBlast2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; including FFB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs 5504 - Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/34/37 5154 - Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/30/41 5574 - Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/30/41 with 45% pet uptime (5385) - Old 25% Burnout Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/50/21 5666 - New 50% Burnout Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/50/21 6340 - New 50% Burnout Wait-FrostfireBolt-Scorch-FireBlast rotation under 100% crit, assuming no Ignite bugs 5736 / 6038 - In case you get exactly one of the 3 Ignites to bug out 100% / 50% of the time. 6198 - Spam FrostfireBolt5/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak 6272 - Spam FrostfireBolt4/FireBlast2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs 6307 - Spam FrostfireBolt5/LivingBomb, use FrostfireBolt+FireBlast on Hot Streak; assuming no Ignite bugs 6329 - Spam FrostfireBolt5/LivingBomb, use FrostfireBolt+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FFB DOT; assuming no Ignite bugs 6338 - Spam FrostfireBolt4/FireBlast2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; including FFB DOT; assuming no Ignite bugs 7955 - Frostfire Bolt that double-dips from CoE/Scorch/WC (as 0/51/20, casting FFB5/LB, FFB+FiBl on HS) 7) Arcane specs* I'll just list the DPS values of the spells first. Cycles will depend on what will proc Missile Barage. Also note that spammed Arcane Blast has higher DPM than Arcane Barrage and Arcane Missiles. I'm leaving out "Torment of the Weak" until we know how it works. It's not worth Slow's GCD/Mana from how it looks. Specs are 53/18/0, i.e. taking Imp. Scorch instead of Icy Veins. Add ~3% for specs with Frost fillers. 6922- Arcane Barrage (16 DPM) 4418 - Arcane Missiles (17 DPM) 8723 - MBAM, Arcane Missiles under Missile Barrage 4378 - Arcane Blast, single cast (29 DPM) 4639 / 4666 / 4813 - Frostbolt / Fireball / Frostfire Bolt in their specialised 51// specs (24/18/24 DPM). Note that the FFB spec cannot pick IV and has to drop 2 points from Arcane Flow or Mind Mastery. Let's do some cycles. They do not include that you lose damage from casting Scorch every 30 seconds, to make different specs/cycles equal. Notice that the cycles are not very attractive even with WC, and they'd drop even lower without it. // If Arcane Barrage can proc MBAM: // 6138 - Cycle (ABar-FrB)3-ABar-MBAM (18 DPM) with frost off-tree; haste capped // 6008 - Cycle (ABar-FB)3-ABar-MBAM-FiBl (16 DPM) with Imp. Scorch // 6103 - Cycle (ABar-FFB)3-ABar-MBAM (19 DPM) with an impossible spec; haste capped // (6229) - PoM exploiting ABar-AM (20 DPM) for permanent +30% crit; includes Missile Barrage procs If Arcane Barrage cannot proc MBAM: 5684 - Cycle (ABar-AB)7-ABar-MBAM-FiBl (19 DPM); haste capped. 5821 - Cycle (ABar-FrB)7-ABar-MBAM (19 DPM) with frost off-tree, is haste capped 5727 - Cycle (ABar-FB)7-ABar-MBAM-FiBl (17 DPM); spec includes Imp. Scorch 5811 - Cycle (ABar-FFB)7-ABar-MBAM (19 DPM) with an impossible spec (5894) - PoM exploiting ABar-AM (20 DPM) for permanent +30% crit If we can make Arcane Blast spam work with sufficient gear: (Note that an (ABar-AB2) spammed cycle under haste is not useful since ABar is worse DPS and DPM.) With WC: 7661 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/21/0 (17 DPM) 7881 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/3/18 (18 DPM) Without WC: 7179 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/21/0 (15 DPM) 7385 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/3/18 (17 DPM) 8) AoE comparisons before caps, in Damage per Cast time 1822 - Arcane: Arcane Explosion 2581 - Arcane: Blizzard (14 frost) 2050 - Frost: Blizzard (8 fire) 2183 - Frost: Blizzard with 15% Frostbite (8 fire) 1448 - Fire: Arcane Explosion 1648 - Fire: Flamestrike (direct damage) 2011 - Fire: Blizzard (14 frost) 2272 - Fire: Flamestrike (including DoT) 3231 - Fire: Instant Flamestrike (direct damage) 3372 - Blastwave 3469 - Dragon's Breath 3842 - Fire: Instant Flamestrike (including DoT) 7694 - Living Bomb 9) Other caster classes Those are just rough approximations, bear in mind that different classe usually are in different states of completion/polish. 3993 - Shadow Priest with a generous use of MF/MB/SWD/VT/SWP 4886 - Elemental Shaman as 43/28/0 spec 5093 - Elemental Shaman as 52/0/19 spec 5375 - Balance Druid with two Glyphs and Starfire/Wrath with Moonfire ticking 6043 - Shadow Destruction Warlock (early approximation as 7/13/51) without CoD 6816 - Fire Destruction Warlock (early approximation as 7/13/51) without CoD 10) TL;DR Spec summary 5347 - Frostbolt with instant Fireballs in 0/18/53 and 53% pet uptime; 3/3 IWE for raidwide mana 5574 - Frostfire Bolt spam as 0/30/41 with 45% pet uptime; no mana from the WE 5706 - Without Winter's Chill: Spam FrostfireBolt4/FireBlast2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; including FFB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs 5803 - Without Winter's Chill: Spam Fireball5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs 5818 - Spam Fireball as 0/51/20, with FB/FiBL on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs 5821 - Cycle (ABar-FrB)7-ABar-MBAM (19 DPM) with frost off-tree; is haste capped 6329 - Spam FrostfireBolt5/LivingBomb, use FrostfireBolt+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FFB DOT; assuming no Ignite bugs 6338 - Spam FrostfireBolt4/FireBlast2/LivingBomb, even through on Hot Streak; including FFB DOT; assuming no Ignite bugs 6385 - Spam Fireball5/LivingBomb, use Fireball+FireBlast on Hot Streak; including FB DoT; assuming no Ignite bugs 6922- Arcane Barrage (16 DPM) as filler spell 7881 - Spammed Arcane Blast as 50/3/18 (18 DPM) 7955 - Frostfire Bolt that double-dips from CoE/Scorch/WC (as 0/51/20, casting FFB5/LB, FFB+FiBl on HS) [Edit]: Added Living Bomb and AoE comparison Debuff clarifications, added info for setups without Winter's Chill. Fixed a typo on the crit damage number. Last edited by Roywyn : 08/14/08 at 9:24 AM.
	The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput This assumes Rune of Razorice and Slow for Torment unless noted as "No TtW". More detailed at http://elitistjerks.com/923110-post2775.html And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.