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Using a 'Mitigation' Weapon
At this stage in the game, most of us get a good laugh at the almost assuredly awful Protection Paladins who run around using Warrior tanking weapons. They're usually the type that can only do Slave Pens and the Mechanar – but not Nethermancer Sepethrea, because she's "hard". We cringe when we join a group on our alts and we get one of them, because it invariably means that your connection is going to "drop" before the first boss, or that the police are at your door and you have to leave.
The reason it's a terrible idea is because high front-loaded threat is a cornerstone of Paladin tanking, and spell damage is the only meaningful way to improve that metric. And the best source of spell damage available is a solid caster weapon. Unfortunately that leaves us down a slot on avoidance or mitigation compared to a Warrior or Druid, but that's just the way we work so we have to accept it. However, some Paladins contend that using a Warrior weapon is appropriate under limited conditions: specifically, when threat is less of a factor (or not a factor at all), it is appropriate to swap in low threat/high mitigation pieces, including your weapon.
Let's explore some of those situations:
Hard-hitting bosses
I see this thrown around a lot by some wet behind the ears Paladins: the mitigation weapon comes out on highly tank-centric bosses, like Prince Malchezaar, Gruul the Dragonkiller, or Halazzi. Squeaking out an extra 200 armor or an extra 1% to dodge looks great on paper when tanking a boss that has a very real chance to smoke you, but swapping out your spell damage weapon remains a very bad idea. Eviscerating your threat generation by anywhere from 20% and up may sound like an easy problem to solve – the DPS can watch their aggro, duh! – it hurts you far more than it helps. The faster the fight ends, the less damage you will take, and the less opportunities there will be for you to be killed by a 'perfect storm' of avoidance failure.
A common counter-argument often includes anecdotes about having double the threat of the DPS, which ties into argument two...
Threat lead
This argument takes two different but similar faces:
a) "I tank just fine with a Warrior weapon and nobody ever pulls aggro."
b) "I use my spell damage weapon until I get a threat lead, then I switch to my Warrior weapon."
This is an absolutely valid argument if, and only if, you're in an entry level group or raid, and it is comprised entirely of sub-par players (be it through skill, gear, knowledge, or any combination thereof). This does not work for playing with the grown-ups. The hallmark of a good damage dealer is the ability to pull aggro off an equally geared tank at will, but the skill to never do it. Unless some sort of mechanic is present that causes the target to fixate on only the tank, your DPS should be pressing you to the limits of your maximum threat generation when you're lead tanking.
Unless, of course, you aren't lead tanking...
Off-tanking
Things change dramatically when you're not the main tank. Depending on the situation using a Warrior weapon can be a great idea, especially in very large pulls. For example, if you are last on a list of three tanks, you will often have adequate time to build sufficient threat on your target even if you are engaging in some bare fist brawling. It can also be great on bosses that have adds that you don't intend to kill or crowd control, like some of the Moroes adds (in the absence of a Priest), or while controlling Veras Darkshadow in the Illidari Council encounter (especially if he gets Blessing of Spell Warding).
It can also be a not-so-great idea if you're tanking AE pulls. It may not be a boss, and it may not require a large amount of threat on any one target, but the spell damage you lose from your weapon is an even larger chunk of your threat when Consecration is the only thing holding them back from crushing some Warlocks. And as hilarious as crushing Warlocks can be, it's still bad.
It's worth pointing out here that it may seem like you're off-tanking The Curator for a bulk of the encounter, but it's still ill-advised to use anything but a spell damage weapon. During its Evocation it takes 200% bonus damage, and you'll find that your threat lead you built up while "off-tanking" rapidly evaporates. If you do insist on using a Warrior weapon, at least switch to your real weapon during the Evocation.
And there are some other strange situations that haven't been covered yet, either...
Other odd circumstances
There are some bizarre times where you would be crazy to not use a Warrior weapon while tanking. They usually include times where the boss has a fixate ability: that is, they never change targets based on aggro, but have some other target selection mechanic. Tanking Netherspite is a great example that's familiar to almost all of us, since you cannot lose aggro while affected by the red portal. Tanking in Phase 1 of the Reliquary of Souls encounter is another situation where you cannot lose aggro, and squeaking out some additional avoidance is invaluable for surviving the period between Enrages.
Any target that is magic immune – or can temporarily become magic immune – is also a prime candidate for using a Warrior weapon, though I would question the wisdom of selecting a Paladin to tank something they really have no business tanking. Veras Darkshadow, as mentioned above, is one of the few bosses that would fall under this category.
Conclusion
While worthless for general purpose tanking, having a Warrior weapon on hand for those rare occurrences where your threat generation is marginalized or negated entirely can be incredibly useful. Is it a required component to a Protection Paladin kit? Probably not. But for those of us who are fond of min-maxing (and who here at Elitist Jerks isn't?), you'll never leave home without one.
(In your bag. Please.)
The reason it's a terrible idea is because high front-loaded threat is a cornerstone of Paladin tanking, and spell damage is the only meaningful way to improve that metric. And the best source of spell damage available is a solid caster weapon. Unfortunately that leaves us down a slot on avoidance or mitigation compared to a Warrior or Druid, but that's just the way we work so we have to accept it. However, some Paladins contend that using a Warrior weapon is appropriate under limited conditions: specifically, when threat is less of a factor (or not a factor at all), it is appropriate to swap in low threat/high mitigation pieces, including your weapon.
Let's explore some of those situations:
Hard-hitting bosses
I see this thrown around a lot by some wet behind the ears Paladins: the mitigation weapon comes out on highly tank-centric bosses, like Prince Malchezaar, Gruul the Dragonkiller, or Halazzi. Squeaking out an extra 200 armor or an extra 1% to dodge looks great on paper when tanking a boss that has a very real chance to smoke you, but swapping out your spell damage weapon remains a very bad idea. Eviscerating your threat generation by anywhere from 20% and up may sound like an easy problem to solve – the DPS can watch their aggro, duh! – it hurts you far more than it helps. The faster the fight ends, the less damage you will take, and the less opportunities there will be for you to be killed by a 'perfect storm' of avoidance failure.
A common counter-argument often includes anecdotes about having double the threat of the DPS, which ties into argument two...
Threat lead
This argument takes two different but similar faces:
a) "I tank just fine with a Warrior weapon and nobody ever pulls aggro."
b) "I use my spell damage weapon until I get a threat lead, then I switch to my Warrior weapon."
This is an absolutely valid argument if, and only if, you're in an entry level group or raid, and it is comprised entirely of sub-par players (be it through skill, gear, knowledge, or any combination thereof). This does not work for playing with the grown-ups. The hallmark of a good damage dealer is the ability to pull aggro off an equally geared tank at will, but the skill to never do it. Unless some sort of mechanic is present that causes the target to fixate on only the tank, your DPS should be pressing you to the limits of your maximum threat generation when you're lead tanking.
Unless, of course, you aren't lead tanking...
Off-tanking
Things change dramatically when you're not the main tank. Depending on the situation using a Warrior weapon can be a great idea, especially in very large pulls. For example, if you are last on a list of three tanks, you will often have adequate time to build sufficient threat on your target even if you are engaging in some bare fist brawling. It can also be great on bosses that have adds that you don't intend to kill or crowd control, like some of the Moroes adds (in the absence of a Priest), or while controlling Veras Darkshadow in the Illidari Council encounter (especially if he gets Blessing of Spell Warding).
It can also be a not-so-great idea if you're tanking AE pulls. It may not be a boss, and it may not require a large amount of threat on any one target, but the spell damage you lose from your weapon is an even larger chunk of your threat when Consecration is the only thing holding them back from crushing some Warlocks. And as hilarious as crushing Warlocks can be, it's still bad.
It's worth pointing out here that it may seem like you're off-tanking The Curator for a bulk of the encounter, but it's still ill-advised to use anything but a spell damage weapon. During its Evocation it takes 200% bonus damage, and you'll find that your threat lead you built up while "off-tanking" rapidly evaporates. If you do insist on using a Warrior weapon, at least switch to your real weapon during the Evocation.
And there are some other strange situations that haven't been covered yet, either...
Other odd circumstances
There are some bizarre times where you would be crazy to not use a Warrior weapon while tanking. They usually include times where the boss has a fixate ability: that is, they never change targets based on aggro, but have some other target selection mechanic. Tanking Netherspite is a great example that's familiar to almost all of us, since you cannot lose aggro while affected by the red portal. Tanking in Phase 1 of the Reliquary of Souls encounter is another situation where you cannot lose aggro, and squeaking out some additional avoidance is invaluable for surviving the period between Enrages.
Any target that is magic immune – or can temporarily become magic immune – is also a prime candidate for using a Warrior weapon, though I would question the wisdom of selecting a Paladin to tank something they really have no business tanking. Veras Darkshadow, as mentioned above, is one of the few bosses that would fall under this category.
Conclusion
While worthless for general purpose tanking, having a Warrior weapon on hand for those rare occurrences where your threat generation is marginalized or negated entirely can be incredibly useful. Is it a required component to a Protection Paladin kit? Probably not. But for those of us who are fond of min-maxing (and who here at Elitist Jerks isn't?), you'll never leave home without one.
(In your bag. Please.)
Total Comments 7
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Quote:
This does not work for playing with the grown-ups.
Also you couldn't be more right. The single, correct, valid excuse I know of to pull one out is Decap on IC (for obvious reasons). Drives me nutty to see all those guys running around with Suneater. |
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I can see some *very* limited use in taking a mitigation weapon if you were making a 102.4% avoidance set, or a passive crush immune set, and you absolutely needed that extra little bit to hit cap.
But other than that, Decapitator on IC, and any non-spell weapon on library trash is the only thing I can really advocate. |
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@Zeidrich: The problem is that if you need to be uncrushable, you're main tanking something, and you just can't do that efficiently with the loss of threat from a spelldamage weapon. Even a high avoidance weapon like the Sun Eater is only giving you around 1.66% avoidance, which is almost always able to be made up on other gear slots depending on the compromises you're willing to make.
Using Decapitator for tanking Veras is a separate situation entirely. The only encounters in the game where it actually makes sense to swap in an avoidance weapon is Essence of Suffering or Mother Shahraz (and then only if you're OTing, which you are as a paladin), because you're not bound by normal aggro mechanics and reducing incoming damage is your top priority. |
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He's talking about a passive 102.4% set, meaning without Holy Shield active. That's a little different.
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That's novelty as well - you'd only use something like that for AFK soloing Garr. My point still stands in that you need a spelldamage weapon to tank anything that someone else will be beating on.
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Well of course it's a novelty set, that's the whole point.
Like I said, you need a real threat generation weapon to tank for the big kids. |
Updated 03/17/08 at 9:47 PM by Theras |
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@Bryne
I MT'd Mother. It's not for the faint of heart. Also, with a full passive avoidance set, you can take a bit more time than normal killing the boss. I don't necessarily agree with using a mitigation weapon on EoS, because the phase is so simple, I would rather have the extra holy dps. |
Updated 03/19/08 at 10:34 PM by zeidrich |
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Like I said, you need a real threat generation weapon to tank for the big kids.