Fixing Rogues, Part 1
Ever since Blizzard released its Cataclysm Talents Tree Post-Mortem, I've been thinking about the structure of our class and talent trees; as for all that Blizzard asserts that the trees are mostly good with just a few "clunker talents" and "traps for the unwary", an honest assessment of the Assassination tree reveals more talents and abilities in need of fixing than not, which seems to me to go a bit beyond the handful of talents that Blizzard seemed to indicate. Additionally, now is a time when we clearly need help; I've enumerated a portion of the myriad flaws afflicting our class in other recent posts.
Hence, between the need for change and Blizzard's apparent unawareness of the scope of the problem, now seems like a good time to propose some changes that address both these problems. However, before I begin, a few caveats are in order.
First, I freely confess that I am not a PvP expert; as such, there are some issues that I intend to refrain from discussing. While trained Shadowstep certainly sounds like fun, the balance implications of such a change are minimal from a PvE perspective but potentially major in PvP. Hence, I leave that discussion and others like it to those that understand PvP better than I. And while I will try to avoid significant disruption to PvP, I freely admit that there are probably PvP consequences to some of my proposals that I have not considered.
Second, while I am making some effort to suggest changes that are balanced and sensible, the simple fact remains that only Blizzard has access to all the data necessary to fully assess these changes. I also have neither the time nor inclination to fully model all these out to make sure they wind up precisely balanced; I do this as a hobby, not as a job, and there's only so much time I can devote to it. Hence: while I try to propose sensible things that aren't horribly broken, I make no guarantees that I will actually succeed in doing so.
Finally, it should be noted that many of these changes are larger than is reasonable to expect for mid-expansion, and intentionally so. I don't believe our current predicament can be fully resolved via tweaking. I can't say I relish the idea of spending another year languishing in mediocrity, but at this point I think its more important to do it right than do it fast. Incremental changes that they can squeeze in in minor patches is what got us into this situation; it will require more radical changes to get us out.
So, without further ado: lets take a look at the first proposal:
1. Remove Deadly Poison
When discussing the problems with rogue burst, Deadly Poison stacking was a major concern cited; at the time, I suggested having DP always proc your other hand's poison, regardless of current stacks. It was pointed out that this feels sort of wrong, and I agree; hence, lets fix the problem another way: by getting rid of DP entirely. Instead, lets make it a bonus proc off IP for Assassination rogues, and just let Combat and Subtlety double up on Instant (or, depending on balance, Wound) poison.
First, this significantly reduces the ramp up for all three specs. In ToC, when Combat was using double WP because it was actually optimal, they actually had quite reasonable burst for short-lived targets. Combat and Subtlety would return to that era of poison application, and while Assassination will still lose damage from the DoT while ramping up on a new target, at least they get their Instant procs from the get-go. Additionally, the increased duration allows them to survive modest interruptions on their current target without losing the stack, so even the loss of DoT damage will be somewhat reduced.
Second, poison damage no longer mandates a fast OH; Mutilate would thus start using double slow daggers for extra poison procs and larger Mutilates, thus increasing the direct damage potential of the spec as well. Hence, in addition to reducing ramp-up time, it also increases burst, if admittedly by a fairly modest amount.
Third, it reduces the Assassination FoK advantage relative to the other specs. Instead of rolling a DP stack plus getting 3 chances to proc IP with every FoK, there is only one poison application per FoK and a slower-building stack. The DoT will still provide some bonus damage, but the overall damage of a single FoK is reduced by half or more. This allows them to make a much-needed global buff to FoK without imbalancing Assassination's AoE, while simultaneously reducing Assassination's ramp-up penalty.
Fourth, adding Envenom to Vile Poisons provides a modest (~20%) burst to Envenom damage, another valuable increase to our active damage sources and thus, our burst. Additionally, it becomes more viable as burst on new targets as it need no longer wait for DP to stack up to be fully effective.
Finally, it allows all three specs to lose less damage when providing debuffs via alternate poisons. Assassination still is hurt more than the other specs in applying Wound or Mind-Numbing, but at least it only loses half its IP damage instead of all of it; and depending on the damage balance of Wound poison, we could easily see a return to the Wrath days where Combat (and Sub) could apply WP without losing DPS at all, much as Arms warriors do. Currently Mind Numbing and Wound Poison might as well not exist in PvE, a significant blow to our utility, particularly in smaller raid sizes; by allowing them to be used again, we regain valuable utility that we are currently sorely lacking.
There are, however, a few problems yet to be resolved, which I intend to address in future installments:
Hence, between the need for change and Blizzard's apparent unawareness of the scope of the problem, now seems like a good time to propose some changes that address both these problems. However, before I begin, a few caveats are in order.
First, I freely confess that I am not a PvP expert; as such, there are some issues that I intend to refrain from discussing. While trained Shadowstep certainly sounds like fun, the balance implications of such a change are minimal from a PvE perspective but potentially major in PvP. Hence, I leave that discussion and others like it to those that understand PvP better than I. And while I will try to avoid significant disruption to PvP, I freely admit that there are probably PvP consequences to some of my proposals that I have not considered.
Second, while I am making some effort to suggest changes that are balanced and sensible, the simple fact remains that only Blizzard has access to all the data necessary to fully assess these changes. I also have neither the time nor inclination to fully model all these out to make sure they wind up precisely balanced; I do this as a hobby, not as a job, and there's only so much time I can devote to it. Hence: while I try to propose sensible things that aren't horribly broken, I make no guarantees that I will actually succeed in doing so.
Finally, it should be noted that many of these changes are larger than is reasonable to expect for mid-expansion, and intentionally so. I don't believe our current predicament can be fully resolved via tweaking. I can't say I relish the idea of spending another year languishing in mediocrity, but at this point I think its more important to do it right than do it fast. Incremental changes that they can squeeze in in minor patches is what got us into this situation; it will require more radical changes to get us out.
So, without further ado: lets take a look at the first proposal:
1. Remove Deadly Poison
- Remove Deadly Poison in its current form from the game.
- Envenom damage no longer depends on poison stacks.
- Improved Poisons (assassination tree passive), in addition to increasing Instant Poison proc rate, also causes successful IP procs to apply a nature damage DoT lasting 18 seconds and stacking up to 5 times.
- Vile Poisons no longer affects FoK, but increases Envenom damage instead.
When discussing the problems with rogue burst, Deadly Poison stacking was a major concern cited; at the time, I suggested having DP always proc your other hand's poison, regardless of current stacks. It was pointed out that this feels sort of wrong, and I agree; hence, lets fix the problem another way: by getting rid of DP entirely. Instead, lets make it a bonus proc off IP for Assassination rogues, and just let Combat and Subtlety double up on Instant (or, depending on balance, Wound) poison.
First, this significantly reduces the ramp up for all three specs. In ToC, when Combat was using double WP because it was actually optimal, they actually had quite reasonable burst for short-lived targets. Combat and Subtlety would return to that era of poison application, and while Assassination will still lose damage from the DoT while ramping up on a new target, at least they get their Instant procs from the get-go. Additionally, the increased duration allows them to survive modest interruptions on their current target without losing the stack, so even the loss of DoT damage will be somewhat reduced.
Second, poison damage no longer mandates a fast OH; Mutilate would thus start using double slow daggers for extra poison procs and larger Mutilates, thus increasing the direct damage potential of the spec as well. Hence, in addition to reducing ramp-up time, it also increases burst, if admittedly by a fairly modest amount.
Third, it reduces the Assassination FoK advantage relative to the other specs. Instead of rolling a DP stack plus getting 3 chances to proc IP with every FoK, there is only one poison application per FoK and a slower-building stack. The DoT will still provide some bonus damage, but the overall damage of a single FoK is reduced by half or more. This allows them to make a much-needed global buff to FoK without imbalancing Assassination's AoE, while simultaneously reducing Assassination's ramp-up penalty.
Fourth, adding Envenom to Vile Poisons provides a modest (~20%) burst to Envenom damage, another valuable increase to our active damage sources and thus, our burst. Additionally, it becomes more viable as burst on new targets as it need no longer wait for DP to stack up to be fully effective.
Finally, it allows all three specs to lose less damage when providing debuffs via alternate poisons. Assassination still is hurt more than the other specs in applying Wound or Mind-Numbing, but at least it only loses half its IP damage instead of all of it; and depending on the damage balance of Wound poison, we could easily see a return to the Wrath days where Combat (and Sub) could apply WP without losing DPS at all, much as Arms warriors do. Currently Mind Numbing and Wound Poison might as well not exist in PvE, a significant blow to our utility, particularly in smaller raid sizes; by allowing them to be used again, we regain valuable utility that we are currently sorely lacking.
There are, however, a few problems yet to be resolved, which I intend to address in future installments:
- Assassination and Subtlety no longer care about fast daggers, leaving Combat as the only spec in the game that still desires a 1.4 speed weapon. Combat Potency thus needs to be adjusted to be less reliant on OH speed, so as to allow all daggers to be itemized in the 1.7-1.9 range while being useful to all 3 specs.
- Master Poisoner is now purely a utility talent. This is not entirely a bad thing, in that previously it was to some extent what Blizzard referred to as a "trap" talent - incredibly critical to the tree's DPS, but not necessarily obviously good to the casual observer. However, the raid buff component probably should be shifted to a legitimate DPS talent in order to avoid the TBC-style issue of a raid buff coming at the cost of personal utility or DPS.
- The nature of a suitable FoK buff remains somewhat elusive; making it cheaper or giving it a damage multiplier would only increase the odd over-reliance on the quality of a slot thats otherwise mostly irrelevant. AoE damage should be a function of the overall quality of your gear (as it is for casters), with perhaps a bit of extra weight on your primary weapon (like hunters); it should not depend primarily on your throwing weapon any more than it should on your wand or relic. Hence, while we now have room to make the large FoK buff that is needed for Subtlety and Combat to compete, we still need to figure out an appropriate mechanism to dramatically increase its efficacy in a way that scales appropriately with gear.
Total Comments 20
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Well, what you are suggesting would be best implemented into Master Poisoner:
Master Poisoner: [...] in adition, your successful IP applications now leave a stacking nature dot called 'placeholder' on your target. I'm not completely sold on envenom not relying on DP; a single charge is enough for envenom to hit almost as hard as a fully charged one (and you get some DP procs while building combo points for envenom too) so I'm not very concerned about it. Also, if combat and subtlety stick with eviscerate, that's because of the consuming doses aspect. Anyway: While the mechanic is certainly different, I can't help it but to think this new dot should be called 'deadly and very venomous poisoned wound' as it very much looks like VW revamped. To me, this feels bland, and I fear the intertwinign of mechanics (this thing procs this, that other things procs that) hampers the ability to comprehend mechanics to newcommers since those that get backed into another usually are hard to fully understand. The point of poisons is to have one for every occasion: a direct damage one, a dot damage one, and various debuffs; loosing the dot coating is simply streamlining but not hitting the problem where it hurts. If we are to propose such big changes I would rather revisit the reasoning behind the mechanic that we are trying to abolish (the need for DP to stack). It was introduced because we were weapon swaping; furthermore, we were developing not just addons, but bots to automate it (even I myself did one, since writing such thing was just extremely easy). The change to DP proccing IP was received with mixed opinions ranging from warm embracing of new mechanics to eskepticism as to why would a poison in one hand proc the poison on the other without a weapon swing. I'm on the second group: while, at the time, it served to fix a problem, it introduced a mechanic very extraneous to melee combat. So I wonder, why did they fix it that way? They clearly don't want weapon swaps to be core to our cycles and yet they let us swap mid-fight for no other tangible reason than letting warriors equip shields to save the day. In modern raiding, warriors don't stance dance anymore, let alone equip a shield (well, some do in Chimaeron, but, hey! that's little more than a gimmick). To me, it would make a lot more sense if we were not allowed to change weapon slots during combat and revert DP to a simple dot that could come out ahead damage-wise based on weapon or stat allocation or itemizaion (just like WP did). Would it generate an out-cry from the small niche of people that still do weapon swaps here and there? I certainly don't know; what I do know is that weapon swaping is still clunky and relates to ancient -or classic if you preffer- wow. If they are serious in this streamlining spree they've set themselves on, one of the first steps is this old mechanic. |
Updated 06/23/11 at 9:44 AM by nextormento |
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One thing they could do mid-expansion is increasing the duration of Deadly Poison. You could easily double it and it would still be in the region of other 'big' dots (considering how fast an affliction warlock or a death knight inflicts the whole instance with them) and it would at least alleviate the problems assassination has on encounters including brief target swaps/drops (which seem to be all the rage in Cataclysm).
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First, let me be clear: this change doesn't fix everything that's wrong with rogues. I don't actually know how to fix all the problems, and even the ones I *do* have ideas for aren't all in this post - I'll be getting to them over the coming weeks. So you're right: this doesn't address Assassination's high reliance on procs, but nor does it really make it any worse. So while it is a bit bland, I think that's okay in combination with other changes. And I do think its a positive step on a number of our other issues.
Second: if only Assassination has "Deadly Poison", Envenom cannot depend on it without being unique to assassination rogues. They will not give an ability to two specs that can't use it. So if the top level change is to be made, *some* manner of refactoring of Envenom needs to occur, even if its just making it an Assassination talent instead of a trained ability - but breaking the connection to DP seemed simplest to me. If you feel the connection should remain, there are certainly reasonable ways of preserving it - for instance, giving Envenom a damage bonus against poisoned targets (like Mutilate gets), or adding an Assassination talent that gives it bonus damage based on the number of poison stacks you have up (i.e: "Increases your Envenom damage by 5/10% per stack of DP on the target"), but to me this feels unnecessary. In most cases you're going to have poison up anyway by the time you Envenom the target so its mostly a passive benefit, and the few cases where its not - quick target switches and the like - is an area Assassination rogues need help with anyway. Hence, making Envenom depend on poison stacks feels neither interesting nor necessary to me, so I'd rather scrap it and come up with something better. In terms of where the IP->DP ability should be added, the important consideration is Mutilate. Mutilate still requires a poisoned target for maximum damage, so ideally you'd like rogues to have a good way of doing so from the moment they gain access to Mutilate - which is also the moment when they become Assassination rogues. Making rogues level from 10 to 30 with suboptimal damage poisons and then spec Deadly Brew to do optimal damage does not feel like the right decision - using double IP should be the right thing to do from the moment you gain Mutilate, which means the DP replacement DoT cannot be other than a tree passive. So yes, Master Poisoner does need some love, and I fully intend to get to that in time; but this ability in particular I think is better on Improved Poisons rather than Master Poisoner. |
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Kicking around a few ideas for fixing the rogue situation, as pertains to target switching, and mitigating some of our shortfalls, I have one idea that I think would alleviate some of the burden we face, at least as assassination is concerned.
By revamping the mechanics of Vendetta, I think we could see quite a bit of benefit in fights with adds without changing its nature as a single-target damage buff by first reducing the duration and cooldown of the ability (15 seconds with a 1-minute CD, 20 seconds glyphed) and allowing it to be transferred between targets via Redirect. In addition, if the buff is consumed upon a target (via the target's death), the rogue's Redirect CD is immediately finished and a buff is applied to the rogue such that redirecting to a new target within a short period (6 seconds, perhaps) will move all existing combo points and apply a new Vendetta buff upon the target. This would serve to allow us more options when considering the use of Vendetta on a case-for-case basis. It would also help diminish some of the general issues we experience with our long ramp-up times, all the while keeping us as primarily single-target DPS, which I certainly think is the intention of the Assassination spec. There are a few ways this could be limited to keep it from being overly powerful, although I don't see as how it would be any worse than what most spell-casting classes can currently do. It could be limited by a short CD on the buff, probably equal to the length of the buff itself, although I think this would leave us in exactly the same position on fights with weaker adds. As well, the new Vendetta buff could potentially be of reduced duration, possibly half the normal buff time. Between overhauling Vendetta and Redirect, and removing deadly poison in favor of allowing our Instant Poison to proc a stacking DoT via talent, spec or glyph (with the increased duration previously proposed), I think that we could certainly see some crucial benefits. These things would not be the cure to all of our ailments, but I do think they would shift some of the burden off to rebalancing other aspects, such as low damage from special attacks and finishers, things that deny us our much-needed burst in some situations. |
Updated 06/23/11 at 3:56 PM by ArsMoritoria (Typos and clarification.) |
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This is one of those topics that I intend to cover in more depth later, but: I'm of the opinion that Vendetta should be scrapped entirely. About the only good thing we've ever been able to say about it is that its better than Hunger For Blood, which, while true... isn't much of a compliment. Its bland and boring on top of unreasonably tying us to a single target in a way that few other DPS cooldowns do. So while I agree that something along the lines of your proposal might be a reasonable fix in the short term, in the long term I think we deserve better.
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While I agree that Vendetta should probably be scrapped or reworked nearly from the ground up, from a design perspective, assassination is intended to be about single-target, with a modicum of AoE utility. Assassins should always, in concept, pick the target that is most advantageous and work it down in an efficient manner, quickly moving on to the next target to do the same thing. I look forward to further discussion and ideas.
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Yeah, well, while we're on the topic: why is it that Subtlety rogues jump in and Ambush people, while Assassination rogues poison them? Seems to be that poison use is more subtle and planting a foot of steel in someone's back is more assassin-like - but maybe that's just me.
Point being: my goal here is to come up with ideas that will make the class fun and interesting to play, balanced against other classes, consistent with the historical playstyle, and well-distinguished between specs. Making sure the playstyle matches well with the labels they happen to have put on each tree is nowhere near the top of the list, as I think that ship has long since sailed. |
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Well, I wasn't commenting upon the actual names of the specs and how they should be representative of some greater thematic ideal, but I do find it rather amusing, all the same. When I say "assassins" it's just a shorter way of saying "Assassination spec rogues" or similar.
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Updated 06/23/11 at 7:56 PM by ArsMoritoria (clarity) |
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To be blunt: I fundamentally disagree with the notion of designing towards a crippled paradigm. In current content rogues in general and assassination in particular are single-target specialists that falter whenever asked to burst stuff down - be it a Rohash shield or a Cho'gall elemental - or switch targets rapidly (Omnotron). And that's one of our major weaknesses at current. I agree that we shouldn't be mere DK clones, but we do need to be more viable if not optimal at some of these functions. Hence it is rather explicitly my intent for us not to be "about single-target, with a modicum of AoE utility"; rather, I intend Assassination to be best at single-target focus and AoE, but still viable at cleaving, bursting, and target-switching in ways we currently aren't, but to do so in ways that are distinctly unique to rogues. I may not succeed... but that's the objective.
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Updated 06/23/11 at 11:25 PM by Aldriana |
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Just wondering: how would you handle Combats Savage Combat talent, when scrapping DP? Wouldn't that change pigeonhole Combat into using WP, whether its best poison of choice or not?
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It would. However, from a PvE perspective, I don't really have a problem with WP being the best damage poison - it always felt a bit strange, but realistically rogues could use the extra debuff, so I don't find it to be a big deal. That said, I can imagine there being PvP implications to Sub rogues getting free WP on top of their existing capabilities, so perhaps that balance would need to be reconsidered - perhaps WP could be made optimal for Combat via a talent. I'll have to think about it.
All that said: I don't know that it feels thematic for Combat to have much in the way of poison-themed abilities; Assassination is the poison tree, and I was thinking in terms of Combat focusing more on straight-ahead physical damage. Hence, from a thematic perspective, I could see making Savage Combat instead be, say, a 30 sec debuff that procs off Revealing Strike. There would be implications in terms of PvP dispelling, but frankly with the weak state of Combat PvP and the relative small damage boost given by the debuff, I don't know how big a deal that is. Fundamentally: I think it can be dealt with; I don't off the top of my head know what the best way to do it is. I'll have to think about it. |
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I always run WP main and DP offhand for combat, but you could change Savage Combat to "targets you have a bleed effect on take 4% more damage". That would force Rupture back into the combat rotation for 10 mans, and maybe(hopefully?) see a buff to it because without the 30% buff from another raid member, it's lacking.
With this change, combat could use whichever poisons they wanted. I agree that Combat relying on poisons seems a bit odd, it's probably the way they try to not homogenize the 4% debuff with arms warriors. |
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Note that WP/DP is currently inferior DPSwise to IP/DP. Just so you know.
There are two reasons I didn't suggest tying it to bleeds: 1) Rupture doesn't have 100% uptime, and debuffs like Savage Combat really should; and 2) For all the claims that Blizzard wants to distinguish the three specs, all three of them rely heavily on the same trinity of finishers: SnD, Rupture, and Eviscerate/Envenom (practically speaking, there's little difference between those last two). And I think breaking that up would be a good way to differentiate the specs. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think it would be interesting to balance Sub so it doesn't use SnD; similarly, I think it would be worth adjusting Combat to not rely on rupture. What I haven't figured out is where to add cycle complexity under such a model, as going straight SnD/Eviscerate would get pretty dully; but I think its definitely something worth considering. |
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I'd imagine the biggest problem with linking Savage Combat to Rupture would be that Rupture doesn't transfer via Blade Flurry while I believe poisons do.
I don't think removing SnD for any spec is viable, but agree that some further differentiation would be nice. As I play Sub personally, I'm usually underwhelmed when comparing Evis numbers to the huge number of Backstab crits you see flying across your screen. If it's not there for the damage, why not allow Envenom or Evis to refresh Rupture (similar to Ass SnD refresh, but keeping the 20% per combo point proviso)? This would give us more options depending on the boss / fight mechanics. E.g. using Env early on to help build poison stacks, or on bosses with higher Armour values etc. Regarding your proposed changes - I think they would be a great way to mitigate some of the switching and ramp-up issues that seem to be largely unique to Assassination, however they run the risk of tipping the scales in the other direction. When Shadow Priests had similar ramp-up issues, they introduced Mind Spike as a burst-nuke ability that's tailor made for front-loading damage while balanced to be a DPS loss on longer fights. Why not introduce a similar ability for rogues? My gut feel is that this was/is the intended use for Ambush/Garrotte, but in their current incarnation (unless you're Sub) you're unlikely to be able to use these on a target switch. I'm weary of the number of "just link it to redirect" suggestions there are flying around these days, but I think making redirect grant the ability to perform 1 (or 2) stealth opener(s) on the target for say the next ~6 seconds would actually be a good match. I would buy into that; even a Cheap Shot on an add that needs to be controlled would provide fantastic raid utility, and the front-loaded burst of Ambush/Garrotte would nicely fill the gap in current ramp-up times. This might have PVP implications, but there is already a fair list of abilities that don't apply to enemy players so it's not like Blizz don't have a precedent to follow ... besides target switching in a similar way can already be achieved with SD at present. Edit: Mostly grammar *hangs head in shame* |
Updated 06/29/11 at 8:36 PM by Jaybird |
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Just imagine how OP that would be, if Rupture would be spread via Blade Flurry. It's like standing in the middle of a multimob pack, chaning positions inside that pack and therefore spread Rupture all around. Not that the Blade Flurry damage itself is considered OP already anyways.
So i really don't see that problem. |
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So with no more DP, what is the difference between Envenom/Evic other than Envenom would ignore armor? It seems you'd want to move/buff CdG to Combat and move the Envenom buff exclusively to vile to prevent Envenom from just replacing Eviscerate wholesale.
I suppose if envenom was used more for the buff (which is basically is now), it would remain primarily viable to ass vs the higher hitting evic. |
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I think its worth noting that at the moment the only reason Assassination's Envenoms do comparable damage to Combat's Eviscerates is in no small part because its getting +70% damage from mastery. In the absence of that, I don't see Envenom being competitive in a PvE environment. And if it provides more options for rogues in PvP against high-armor targets... I don't know that that's a bad thing.
But, yes, it will be important to make sure that Envenom's value proposition is clear for Assassination without it completely replacing Eviscerate for the other specs, and it may make sense to rearrange or add talents to ensure that this happens; its certainly something to keep in mind as I develop further proposals for fixing the class. |
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Hello, Aldriana and fellow rogues.
I would like to add my thoughts about the rogue dps concerns in this very informative blog. Firstly, I see that this blog post has been made just one day before the Dev's Q&A where it was clarified that the defining design idea of rogues is the build-up of damage potential. In a few words, developers said that rogues are not designed to be bursty. The solutions that Aldriana has proposed here and most of the people that reacted to this post, try to address this "burst-ness" problem and, in general, they seem quite radical. I would like to attempt a different approach. An approach that is more "developer friendly", but also follow the general rogue design idea of the damage potential build-up. Let's take the example of assassination rogue. For target switching situations, most of the experienced muti rogues change target just after they landed an envenom and they have the envenom buff. Also, most of the experienced muti rogues try to refresh their deadly poison on the previous target via a fok or their thrown weapon or simple autoattacks(remember putricide and the orange oozes). Of course, this is a difficult gameplay and it becomes quite hard compared to other classes that just have enough burst to compensate for target switching or adequate movement capabilities, but this could be easily balanced by tweaking the single target dps numbers of muti rogue. Now, if we concentrate on those two aspects of muti target switching gameplay; namely 1) changing target with envenom buff (2 more seconds??) and 2) maintaining 5 deadly poisons stacks. I see one elegant solution: increase envenom buff duration and increase deadly poison duration(let's say to 30seconds?). Of course, envenom clipping is something that all muti rogues were told to avoid, but this isn't something that could actually gimb our dps potential and can't be adjusted by number tweaking. Moreover, the increased duration of deadly poison gives more chances to the "experienced muti rogue" to maintain damage potential on both targets. I find those ideas appealing because in situations where we have a boss and we have to run to one add, the blizz developers could keep our dps very competitive by just tweaking numbers, while good players can be distinguished by proper gameplay. In the situation where we have more than one mobs to attack, then the fight becomes a cleave or aoe fight. In a cleave situation, of course, we can change to combat rogue (which is -supposedly- an advantage of a poor dps class) and again for blizzard it becomes a number tweaking procedure. For aoe situations, again an increased envenom buff could help, but I dont know how this could be improved for combat rogue. My general idea is how we could find a solution that does not deviate completelly from what are the design goals of the spec/class while trying to keep it simple for the developers to tweak numbers and balance us with other classes. Zibythides, Darksorrow-EU |
Updated 07/06/11 at 9:08 AM by Zibythides |
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Looking at the current state of combat and our BiS gear lists, I can't help but point at the elephant in the room that is energy capping. Given Hunger, Energy Matrix always proccing the haste buff and our 4pc bonus, capping becomes a serious issue, and this is without considering Heroism/AR/CP procs/MG procs, etc.
Another issue is Revealing Strike. While most of the EJ readers understand that it is optimal to use at 4 combo points, it doesn't feel intuitive and is still very confusing to a lot of players. As a fix for both of these, why not make Revealing Strike similar to Execute? A base energy cost of 40 with bonus damage based on whatever extra energy you have at the time, still only awarding a single combo point. This would give us a good boost in burst in both PvE and PvP situations, and a way to better utilize the massive amount of energy regen combat is based around. |
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I think the main obstacle of combat is still Bandit's Guile. There are so many ways to make life easier for combat rogues by changing this one item alone. Bandit's Guile basically has its own rhythm, considering you do a constant dps output. Therefore modifying your dps output in a way to steer deep insight in spot where a high dps output is needed, is quite a task imho.
Therefore i would change Bandit's Guile in a way, that it is a buff, you need to maintain by doing a certain number of styles per timeframe. This way you would still have a penalty for switching or being interrupted in your cycle, but you would not get demolished as much. You could also think about letting Bandit's Guile drop to 2 stacks instead sweeping the whole stack. So much possibilities... Of course the damage benefit would have to be adopted accordingly. |
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