Fixing Rogues, Part 2: Cooldowns
Posted 07/16/11 at 10:14 PM by Aldriana
The next problem I'd like to address is that of cooldowns - long an iconic part of our class. In vanilla we were defined - particularly in PvP - by our access to many powerful cooldowns, and we've gained more across the patches and expansions since then. Yet in the modern PvE game, they have become as much burden as benefit, and today I'd like to discuss why that is, and how to fix it.
Let us begin with our utility cooldowns, as the problem with them is easier to identify. We have some that are powerful tools in our arsenal, led by Cloak but also including Sprint, Evasion, and Redirect. These are valuable tools, because we use them in response to specific needs that arise during a fight. We Cloak when we need to shed a debuff, and Sprint when we need to get somewhere faster, and Evasion when we have aggro and Redirect to get a sharper target switch. Compare this to Tricks or (for Assassination and Subtlety) Vanish, which we hit because... its off cooldown.
The key point here is that some of our cooldowns have ceased being things that we hit because we need the benefit they provide to respond to a specific event within the fight - thus requiring a decision to be made about when they are most needed - and started being things that we hit every 30 or 60 or 180 seconds, with little regard to timing within the fight. This robs them of their role as powerful tools to use as needed, and turns them into just another part of our rotation - and I think that's boring. What's the point in having cooldowns (rather than passive benefit) if there's no meaningful decision to be made about when and how to use them? Fortunately, though, the solution is easy - simply remove the DPS component to the abilities, and the problem goes away. There's just no good reason to turn vanish into a (ghetto) DPS cooldown.
For DPS cooldowns, the problem is harder, as by definition, the more times you use a DPS cooldown in a given fight, the more damage you will do. But I think we can do better than we currently are by making them short, intense, and infrequent:
To illustrate this point: if Vendetta were a 90% damage increase for 10 seconds every 3 minutes, it would give the same average damage increase that it does now, but would be obviously vastly more powerful (and quite possibly overpowered). Even at +40% for 10 seconds every 3 minutes it would be a much more valuable tool - particularly once our baseline DPS was buffed to compensate for the loss of cooldown damage.
With these goals in mind, let us now look at solutions for our Combat cooldowns (I'll deal with Assassination and Subtlety in future installments):
2. Tricks is not a DPS cooldown
I've gone through the full logic of this previously, so I will refer you to that explanation rather than repeating the whole thing here. To summarize: Tricks should be only a threat transfer, and we use it when someone needs more or less threat - not just because its been 30 seconds since we last hit it.
3. Restless Blades removed
When Restless Blades first came out, I liked it - I thought it was a good fit with our usual cooldown-centric style of play. However, upon contemplation, I've changed my mind; as we've discussed, cooldowns that become available too frequently can be detrimental to their quality, and that's all Restless Blades does. Moroever, it doesn't contribute to decision-making in any way; its not like you're going to do more or less damaging finishers based on a desire to control when things come off cooldown; your optimal cycle already involves doing as many as is possible, so Restless Blades is effectively a passive benefit for doing something you were already going to do anyway. If we must have something that reduces cooldowns, it should be tied to something that we wouldn't necessarily already always do. For instance, were it tied to Revealing Strike, we'd get some normal baseline level of cooldown reduction - but if you needed your cooldown sooner for some reason, you could sacrifice short term DPS by spamming RvS in order to get your cooldown back faster. Would it always be worth using? Not if balanced correctly. But the fact that you *could* do it if necessary would add richness and depth to the class.
That said: such an implementation is not without its own problems, and I'm not advocating that as a replacement (yet); but given that the current implementation isn't much different than "your KSp cooldown is reduced by 20/40 seconds and your AR cooldown by 30/60" - and as we've discussed, short cooldowns isn't really a good thing - I do feel confident in saying that Restless Blades does need to be replaced with *something* else.
4. Killing Spree only kills bad guys
Now, I've said this before, and I'll say it again: it doesn't really bother me that KSp can't be used on cooldown on all fights. It doesn't even bother me that much that there's the occasional fight where you can't use it at all. The entire point of this post has been that you should have to pay attention to when you hit cooldowns and not just do so whenever they become available, and having to figure out whether its safe to use or not strikes me as wholly consistent with that goal - provided our DPS is not balanced with the assumption that we'll be able to use it the instant it comes off cooldown for the entire duration of every fight.
That said: I think its a little *too* punitive in its current form - very few abilities can kill you irrevokably if mistimed by only a second or two. So to avoid the issues of getting dumped into lava behind bosses and sucked off to strange locations by chaining off adds, lets simply always return to where we started from - you may ping pong all over the place for 2.5 seconds, but at the end of it you're back where you started. Of course, the boss may have dropped a flame puddle or a Shadow Trap or whatever on the location you left from, but that's why you have to be careful; in the age of boss timers there's simply no reason not to know when the next patch of bad will be appearing. It'll still be a cooldown that must be used with caution, but at least now you're in control of your own fate.
5. Nerf AR. A lot.
AR is currently almost 10% of a combat rogue's damage; the removal of Restless Blades drops this to 6%; cutting it to half its current (glyphed) duration drops that to 3%, and dropping the (rather unnecessary) haste that was tacked on to the ability in Cataclysm gets us down around 2%. Which is a far more reasonable place for it to be. Its still a significant boost while active, and is still absolutely worth using, but you have far more flexibility in saving it for the moment it matters most.
Let us begin with our utility cooldowns, as the problem with them is easier to identify. We have some that are powerful tools in our arsenal, led by Cloak but also including Sprint, Evasion, and Redirect. These are valuable tools, because we use them in response to specific needs that arise during a fight. We Cloak when we need to shed a debuff, and Sprint when we need to get somewhere faster, and Evasion when we have aggro and Redirect to get a sharper target switch. Compare this to Tricks or (for Assassination and Subtlety) Vanish, which we hit because... its off cooldown.
The key point here is that some of our cooldowns have ceased being things that we hit because we need the benefit they provide to respond to a specific event within the fight - thus requiring a decision to be made about when they are most needed - and started being things that we hit every 30 or 60 or 180 seconds, with little regard to timing within the fight. This robs them of their role as powerful tools to use as needed, and turns them into just another part of our rotation - and I think that's boring. What's the point in having cooldowns (rather than passive benefit) if there's no meaningful decision to be made about when and how to use them? Fortunately, though, the solution is easy - simply remove the DPS component to the abilities, and the problem goes away. There's just no good reason to turn vanish into a (ghetto) DPS cooldown.
For DPS cooldowns, the problem is harder, as by definition, the more times you use a DPS cooldown in a given fight, the more damage you will do. But I think we can do better than we currently are by making them short, intense, and infrequent:
- Infrequent - Consider for a moment how Heroism is used; you pick the one time during the fight when you need it most, and you use it then - because you can only use it once every 10 minutes, and few fights last that long. This is different than, say, Adrenaline Rush or Vendetta, which you spam on cooldown all fight long. It you make the cooldowns longer - 3 minutes, or even 5 - you'll get fewer uses per fight, and thereby more temporal flexibility in when you use them. In a 7 minute fight, a 2 minute cooldown can only be delayed 15 seconds per usage (on average) to get the maximal number of usages in, while a 5 minute cooldown can be delayed by a minute (on average) and still get both usages in.
- Short - Cooldowns provide too large a portion of our DPS - Vendetta 5%, and Adrenaline Rush almost 10%. If the DPS benefit were smaller, we could afford to take more chances - gambling with 1% of the total damage you'll do for the fight is far more reasonable than gambling with 3%. One of the two ways to do this is to make the duration shorter.
- Intense - The other way, of course, is to make them less powerful when active, but I don't see that that's necessarily a good solution; it risks the Cold Blood problem of it not really mattering that much whether you hit it or not. Thus, we make sure the benefit provided is significant and meaningful, and reduce the total damage expectation only via duration.
To illustrate this point: if Vendetta were a 90% damage increase for 10 seconds every 3 minutes, it would give the same average damage increase that it does now, but would be obviously vastly more powerful (and quite possibly overpowered). Even at +40% for 10 seconds every 3 minutes it would be a much more valuable tool - particularly once our baseline DPS was buffed to compensate for the loss of cooldown damage.
With these goals in mind, let us now look at solutions for our Combat cooldowns (I'll deal with Assassination and Subtlety in future installments):
2. Tricks is not a DPS cooldown
- Tricks no longer gives the target a DPS benefit.
- Replace the T10 and T12 set bonuses with non Tricks-linked abilities.
- Glyph of Tricks still removes energy cost but increases cooldown to 45 seconds instead of reducing damage bonus.
I've gone through the full logic of this previously, so I will refer you to that explanation rather than repeating the whole thing here. To summarize: Tricks should be only a threat transfer, and we use it when someone needs more or less threat - not just because its been 30 seconds since we last hit it.
3. Restless Blades removed
When Restless Blades first came out, I liked it - I thought it was a good fit with our usual cooldown-centric style of play. However, upon contemplation, I've changed my mind; as we've discussed, cooldowns that become available too frequently can be detrimental to their quality, and that's all Restless Blades does. Moroever, it doesn't contribute to decision-making in any way; its not like you're going to do more or less damaging finishers based on a desire to control when things come off cooldown; your optimal cycle already involves doing as many as is possible, so Restless Blades is effectively a passive benefit for doing something you were already going to do anyway. If we must have something that reduces cooldowns, it should be tied to something that we wouldn't necessarily already always do. For instance, were it tied to Revealing Strike, we'd get some normal baseline level of cooldown reduction - but if you needed your cooldown sooner for some reason, you could sacrifice short term DPS by spamming RvS in order to get your cooldown back faster. Would it always be worth using? Not if balanced correctly. But the fact that you *could* do it if necessary would add richness and depth to the class.
That said: such an implementation is not without its own problems, and I'm not advocating that as a replacement (yet); but given that the current implementation isn't much different than "your KSp cooldown is reduced by 20/40 seconds and your AR cooldown by 30/60" - and as we've discussed, short cooldowns isn't really a good thing - I do feel confident in saying that Restless Blades does need to be replaced with *something* else.
4. Killing Spree only kills bad guys
- Killing Spree always returns you to the exact point in space you left from
Now, I've said this before, and I'll say it again: it doesn't really bother me that KSp can't be used on cooldown on all fights. It doesn't even bother me that much that there's the occasional fight where you can't use it at all. The entire point of this post has been that you should have to pay attention to when you hit cooldowns and not just do so whenever they become available, and having to figure out whether its safe to use or not strikes me as wholly consistent with that goal - provided our DPS is not balanced with the assumption that we'll be able to use it the instant it comes off cooldown for the entire duration of every fight.
That said: I think its a little *too* punitive in its current form - very few abilities can kill you irrevokably if mistimed by only a second or two. So to avoid the issues of getting dumped into lava behind bosses and sucked off to strange locations by chaining off adds, lets simply always return to where we started from - you may ping pong all over the place for 2.5 seconds, but at the end of it you're back where you started. Of course, the boss may have dropped a flame puddle or a Shadow Trap or whatever on the location you left from, but that's why you have to be careful; in the age of boss timers there's simply no reason not to know when the next patch of bad will be appearing. It'll still be a cooldown that must be used with caution, but at least now you're in control of your own fate.
5. Nerf AR. A lot.
- Haste buff removed from AR; it again only increases regen.
- Duration reduced to 10 seconds.
- Glyph of Adrenaline Rush removed.
AR is currently almost 10% of a combat rogue's damage; the removal of Restless Blades drops this to 6%; cutting it to half its current (glyphed) duration drops that to 3%, and dropping the (rather unnecessary) haste that was tacked on to the ability in Cataclysm gets us down around 2%. Which is a far more reasonable place for it to be. Its still a significant boost while active, and is still absolutely worth using, but you have far more flexibility in saving it for the moment it matters most.
Total Comments 18
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The fact that currently Killing Spree does not return you to the point you started from can be useful on some rare occasions, for example, keeping up with a fast moving target or getting to places you couldn't normally reach (Chromatic Prototypes during Nefarian phase transition come to mind). Like you said, Aldriana, players should think about when is the best time to use a cooldown, and this behaviour can be considered a part of that. That said, your suggestion could be implemented via a minor glyph like it has been discussed countless times already, and the players would have to decide which KSp behaviour they require for every encounter.
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"Its a good talent - except for the fact that it kills you." Best quote of the whole blog. Nicely written by the way. I don't use it that often as the risk in most fights out-weighs the rewards. I may try to use it immediately in a fight prior to the boss having an opportunity to start his rotation, but find myself mainly using it on trash.
AR needs to be changed back as well. With the emphasis on Haste and all that it does for Combat, I find myself wasting the regen portion as Haste is already pretty high. I still think AR could be fixed if they took SS off cd or cut it in half. The problem I have with Combat, which does add to the slight complexity to playing the spec, is that everything is on the same cd. SS, the main push for Combat spec, shouldn't be on the same as all other abiliities. In general, I do favor your opinion for rogues of moving things to shorter duration higher intensity abilities with longer cds. I enjoy reading your blogs. Keep up the good work. |
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I agree that the wording
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Killing Spree always returns you to the exact point in space you left from
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1) Having safe-mode KSp as a Glyph is an interesting option; I suspect it'd be more likely as a major glyph than a minor one, as most minor glyphs have no combat applications. That said, the idea is not without its problems, either; I worry that the glyph would feel too mandatory on many fights. We don't want GoKSp to become a mandatory major glyph like Glyph of Tricks is right now, and I think in the vast majority of situations you'd want "Safe" KSp rather than the one that lets you move with a target.
2) KSp dropping you behind the boss is not an entirely satisfactory solution, as bosses move - ask any rogue that's been dumped into lava by KSping too late on Magmaw or sucked into oblvion on Al'akir P3. And while you can argue that that's partly an error in when it was used, the point remains that "behind the boss" is a point in space defined by the tank as much as by you, and having to coordinate that feels like an unnecessary complication for the ability. I'm of the opinion that you should always know where KSp is going to leave you when you hit the ability, regardless of what anyone else does; and the easiest way to do that is to land in the same place you departed. I'm open to other ideas, but at current I really feel that this is the most elegant solution to the problem. 3) The cooldown of SS can't realistically be lowered any further - its bound by the theoretical limits of the GCD, and I don't see Blizzard changing that. I also think there are better solutions to that problem - one of which is simply the lowered duration. With good energy management you shouldn't cap out on energy during the opening seconds of an AR, and while the current (glyphed) 20 seconds is long enough to run into problems, 10 seconds should cause less problems. I also think the baseline regen of Combat needs to be lowered, which will similarly lower the regen during AR and mitigate this problem - I wholly intend to scrap Vitality completely just as soon as I come up with a reasonable proposal to replace it. |
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One occasion where I thought ”man, why doesn’t KSpree always work like this?” was riding one of the disks during Malygos p2. Essentially what happens is that you can keep steering (the disk) as usual while the character does the usual flailing-around-randomly thing, attacking a target whenever one is in range. Perhaps a bit too Bladestorm-y, but less risk of pathological mechanic interaction. And if you’ve ever tried to PvP as combat, the current incarnation is a pretty guaranteed cause of profanity yelling (for your team).
I also wonder why, as a class with two unique resources, rogues haven’t gotten cooldowns that would be more creative about them. Take Zealotry for example (and consider how long paladins have had Holy Power). |
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Perhaps they could add a energy depending damage factor to SS (like execute with rage).
This way any energy, that has been considered as excess, would be translated into extra damage, and cooldown like AR would remain meaningful, independent of how much haste you get on your gear. Another advantage of this suggestion would be, that you might have a mini burst as well, when you pool energy before SS. |
Updated 07/20/11 at 5:42 AM by yunero |
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I see a lot of ideas here, all basically aimed at nerfing cooldowns. What would you recommend to account for the nerf to cooldowns, seeing as how rogues are still in the middle of the pack. These kidna changes, unmatched my other buffs, would cause us to drop to the bottom.
That said, I do agree and disagree about Killing spree. I do agree it is possible to kill yourself. I disagree that it needs to be changed. What you said basically holds true for not changing it. I mean, yes it is annoying to get pulled off on adds, or to get throw behind a boss into lava, but what you said works here too: we have addons galore including timers. If you know a bad patch is coming, you should have an idea when the head is going back up, etc. It seems that its not really a fix to put you back into a bad patch compared with a mistimed KS that throws you off a cliff. Sure, it would make KS easier to use that way, but as most of your posts say, things are just too easy as they are. Maybe having to watch for that kinda stuff is a good thing |
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Yes, the idea is that the damage that was removed from cooldowns would be added back other places. I will have more changes over the coming weeks and months to do so. I don't just want to tack another 10% AP onto Vitality and pretend that fixes the problem, and doing things right takes a fair amount of time - particularly since fixing some problems makes other problems worse. A complete solution to all of rogues problems - even assuming such is possible - will require many changes, a lot of careful balancing, and a lot of explanation - hence, I'm trying to break it down into reasonable chunks to make it clear what the advantages of each set of changes are. This is part 2. Parts 3 and following will come in time.
For KSp, I generally agree that its not *that* bad an ability right now, and I'm not totally averse to its current functionality - I just know a lot of other people are. And I think there are some reasonable objections to the current behavior, like: 1) You are not in control of your own fate. No matter how careful you are about using it, if circumstances change during those two seconds - a tank dies making the boss turn or whatever - you can wind up in a situation that you had no ability to predict. Its fine to make people responsible for using it at an intelligent time, but when you don't have any ability to predict when that's going to be, that's probably bad. 2) There's no way to know whether its safe on a given encounter other than trying it and seeing if you die. This is also not really ideal. How are you supposed to know that its safe to use on Magmaw but only when he's not changing forms, and its safe to use in Al'akir P1, but if you use it in Al'akir P3 you die instantly? You try it, you die, and then you know. I think it would be good if you could go into the move knowing what was going to happen rather than figuring it out purely through trial and error on each fight? 3) It kills you a little too permanently. If it were just a matter of needing to be careful not to land in void zones or cleaves, it'd be fine; but when Magmaw dumps you in the lava you can't even be ressed. If it were just a matter of not KSping into Void Zones or Cleaves, it'd be fine; but unressably dead on a fight where that normally can't happen strikes me as less ideal. In short: I agree that you should need to be careful about it. But I think its reasonable to want to at least have some ability to predict whats going to happen when you hit the button regardless of what happens in the next 2.5 seconds, and I think its reasonable for it to only kill you in the ways that are usually possible on the fight. I'm fine with it putting you in bad positions, I just don't think they should be instantly, unavoidable, and irretrievably fatal. So making a small change to make if predictable seems reasonable to me. Not essential, mind you - its probably the least important of the proposed changes on this page - but at least worth considering. |
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Would fixing the mastery for Combat make the cooldowns a little better? I agree that KS is the most frustrating talent at times. I got KS'd into a Sulfuras Smash (the actual hammer portion) on our first Rag kill, that was awesome. Delaying it on p3 of AlAkir until the boss is at 1% wasn't much fun either.
However, if Mastery was a more desirable stat than Haste, I think we'd see a lot less of an issue that Combat is currently seeing. Our energy capping would be far less frequent, and thus overall damage would improve, assuming they buff Mastery. Here's what I would propose. Make Main Gauche a talent in the way that the old Sword Specialization talent was in the place of Combat Potency, and turn Combat Potency into our mastery. We'd be able to stack Mastery in order to gain energy, which is all we really care about. Adrenaline Rush would still be a great CD to use, as the attack speed would be a big benefit to Combat Potency procs, as well as the extra SS/Evisc we get. |
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The thing is, reducing the stat weight of Haste only helps so much; the difference between your most stacked stats and least stacked stats is rarely much over 1000 rating, so... okay, you regen 17 energy per second instead of 18. It doesn't fix the problem at its core.
Energy regen is actually a topic I want to discuss in more detail at some point in the future, so I'll refrain from getting into all the details here. I will say that I think the Combat Potency as Mastery idea is a somewhat reasonable one - in fact, its one I've proposed before (see the last paragraph of this post). That said, its not totally without issues either - there's a reasonable argument to be made that Combat Potency should disappear entirely. But it is definitely a change I'm thinking about. |
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I think you could see how problematic giving yourself a 90% increased damage buff for 10 seconds would be in PvP.
But that's not what we're here to talk about. I agree that we should have to think about when and why to use our cooldowns, that could really elevate the skill cap of PvE. Having to time cooldowns with other proc'd buffs, pots, or even just Lust would make them more interesting than they are in their current state. However, if you remove the DPS benefit of Vanish you're also removing it off of stealth, making it pointless for rogues to open out of stealth other than the fact that you get a speed increase. Seems a bit more boring than it is in it's current state. At least there is a little variety there. Anyways, I do agree that using cooldowns should force you to use your head. My favorite fight in Tier11 was Atramedes because of how helpful rogues were during the air phase. I want to be utilized for powerful cooldowns more often! |
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What about making combat's mastery be the buff to "combo-point generators" (ie: SS) that was originally proposed when the changes for Cata were first listed? This would help with the target switching issue and moderately with the "burst-on-demand" problems. It doesn't add passive damage like MG and actually requires us to do something, albeit something we would be doing anyway.
Alternatively, mastery could be made into arpen (not the 90%+ we all had in LK but say 10% base and 1.5% per point, stacking with expose/sunder/etc). This would be a buff to passive damage as well, but would definitely help "burst-on-demand" needs. |
Updated 07/30/11 at 12:31 AM by Shadowblade |
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As has been pointed out, the cooldown changes would have pvp ramifications. Though not many are playing combat in pvp, AR is really hugely important for that spec in pvp. I don't really know what the right answer is for AR, but I think the removal of restless blades would reduce it from 10% of total damage. I definitely enjoy cooldowns mattering, but it is not as if rogues are the "king of cooldowns"- if there's a short duration over which you have to deal damage, it's pretty rare that a rogue's cooldowns make that matter.
Tricks also is useful in pvp, specifically for the damage boost. It is good in pve for the same reason- you get to buff whomever is doing a ton of damage for some reason. Tanks beating up birds with a +1000% damage buff? Well, that's a really powerful button to press! Mage have a massive haste boost, or spellsteal some broken thing? Tricks them away! Paladin popping wings? Etc. In some of those cases, you don't even want it glyphed- it's more raid dps on, say, Aly if unglyphed (in the general case, of course, that is not the case). I don't consider tricks to be mindless at all- maybe in a static raid situation it's obvious where it goes, but in general, I think the tricks damage boost is one of our best tools. I think a lot of gripes rogues have about it would go away if recount listed tricks damage as being done by the rogue instead of by the target- that one UI change would fix a lot of confusion I think. (edit: I also believe it would make a lot of rogues try to figure out who is doing a ton of damage at any given time and reward raid-aware rogues, as they would want to tricks correctly on the fly, instead of just tricksing a default target) Which isn't to say I like set bonuses that give heavy penalties for not pushing it every single cooldown, and thus turning off the ability to transfer threat. Simply that I use tricks in every encounter, pvp and pve, and to compensate all this with a minor damage boost would weaken Verain in my eyes substantially. |
Updated 08/05/11 at 6:51 PM by Verain |
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I will also add, in response to the armor pen comment, that combat is the only remaining dps spec in the game with no real way around armor, and it could definitely use some manner of this- but I don't think mastery is the best place to go for this. Combat has a very unmemorable mastery at the moment, but I would rather combat have a move to work around armor, and then it could be properly balanced in pvp as well.
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While its true that Tricks has the occasional fight where you do more than pick one person and use it on them every 30 seconds for the duration of the fight, those fights are the exception and not the rule. On some fights that might be the mage and on others it might be the warrior and still others your fellow rogue - but there's very few fights where you can't pick that person before the fight, set your macro to point to them, and then mash it every 30 seconds all fight long. And while that may leave some room for strategizing before the fight, it doesn't really require much intelligence or skill during it. And I consider that sort of a bad thing.
Moreover, if you're really wedded to the notion of a DPS buff you can use on others, I still maintain that its better to separate it from the utility cooldown. Would you prefer the status quo, or Tricks as above plus a new ability that increases the damage dealt by target player by 35% with a 10 second duration and a 3 minute cooldown? You can still use it on whoever you feel will give you the largest damage burst, but also gain meaningful decisions about when to use it for maximal effect; you don't just hit it because its down; you can afford to hold onto it until the mage has gotten their good Rune on Omnotron and can get the most effect of it. And it makes Tricks again a viabie utility cooldown in its own right. Seems to me that that's win-win. To be clear: I'm not a huge fan of this replacement ability, either - I am in no way advocating that they should make that instead. But I do think it'd be a significant improvement over the status quo. Point being: for all that Tricks may have some minor nice factors, it has a lot of problems as well; and there are ways to gain the perceived advantages without being saddled with the disadvantages, and that seems very much worth considering. Finally, you're right, rogues are no longer the king of cooldowns. And that's exactly the problem. Once we were. In vanilla we had one of the best sets of cooldowns, and they were what made us a terror in PvP in that era (as well as providing significant benefit in PvE). But that identity has been usurped by other classes, and personally, I think it would be fun to reclaim it to some degree. |
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Overall an excellent post, with which I generally agree. Some points though:
1) Argueing that AR is too safe a cooldown (little or no decision making) and at the same time that KS is too risky doesn't leave a whole lot of design space. I actually quite like that people need to think before slamming KS and I love that those who don't get instantly punished. Of course this requires that it actually works (I'm looking at you, Alysrazor), and indeed that its overall contribution to damage output reflects the risk assessment - but if it does, I'm all for that. 2) Another way to solve the lack of consequence in cooldowns is by altering performance down the line. For instance, let's imagine that after the heightened state of an AR the rogue get's weary and regenerates less energy/sec for a given period of time, requiring the player to plan ahead and time his cooldowns more efficiently. |
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And while that may leave some room for strategizing before the fight, it doesn't really require much intelligence or skill during it. And I consider that sort of a bad thing.
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I still maintain that its better to separate it from the utility cooldown. Would you prefer the status quo, or Tricks as above plus a new ability that increases the damage dealt by target player by 35% with a 10 second duration and a 3 minute cooldown?
You are absolutely correct that if we had tricks as a threat transfer, and a separate ability to combine with burst in PvP, or to simply put on whatever is doing the most damage at the moment in pve, either because that player has a gear advantage, a skill advantage, a phase advantage, or a mechanics advantage- that would be absolutely fantastic. I think that's a much better idea than just getting rid of the dps part of tricks. I think that tricks as it exists is better than tricks without the dps component. I definitely think that your proposed version would be far better, however, as it would be a cooldown that we could coordinate or launch on the fly with good raid awareness. I'm just concerned that if rogues start saying that they don't want tricks to have a dps component, that we might lose it (in exchange for some trivial and temporary dps adjustment). Right now I know that it is powerful, because I can stick it on someone else. It even makes them happy because it makes their colorbar bigger, and that's the minigame a lot of raiders play much of the time. Again, I do agree that it's stupid to have a set bonus that makes us keep it on cooldown 100% of the time, and to make a move that should, in fact, be pressed the moment it comes off of cooldown, without exception. Quote:
But that identity has been usurped by other classes, and personally, I think it would be fun to reclaim it to some degree.
I will also point out that I have a related gripe with restless blades. In the olden days, if the boss decided to phase out or whatever, or go through some phase where no one could dps him, then all the classes that were cooldown reliant experienced a surge in utility: their cooldowns were essentially up for more of the actual fight than on a sustained fight. This is still true for every class with good cooldowns, but it's not true for combat anymore, because our cooldowns actually having the duration they are balanced around is reliant on actually being in melee and punching something in the butt. Fights such as Mimiron were very pleasant to be combat on, because while he was busy yammering in mecha-gnome about how awesome he was, I was watching blade flurry, killing spree, and adrenaline rush inch closer to my next use. Nowadays I would be penalized in a similar situation, because there's nothing to shove a sword into or something. Quote:
I actually quite like that people need to think before slamming KS and I love that those who don't get instantly punished.
I sort of think that killing spree should go along with a 3 second invincibility effect- the 2.5 seconds of the actual move, and then half a second to get away from The Death Zone you are now in- maybe make you flicker colors like Starman Mario or something. Should Bandit's Guile be in this conversation? It's clear that this cyclical effect is intended to be used in conjunction with the cooldowns. It is likely thought of by the devs as sort of a meta-cooldown. Off topic, but: I wish our combat mastery was buffed to be the best stat. Our reforges would at least not be so frenetic, and not so punished from missing even a single one-second global. |
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I thought perhaps this is the best place to mention this as it's quite early to be discussing in detail 5.0 abilities. If you take a look at the 5.0 Rogue Talents, you'll notice that a couple familiar cooldowns have been modified to something a little more interactive. The wording of KS indicates that it will teleport you as you press it (slightly safer), it generates 5 CPs, and you can probably do things while it’s active (spend energy). Vendetta is a shorter duration (making its usage more flexable) and grants you a new CP generating ability while it's active, rather than a fire and forget. Shadow Dance was left as is; I imagine it is because out of all of our cooldowns, this one requires the most attention while active. Now the reason I point this out is not really to discuss these specific abilites but more so to point out that is appears that Blizzard wants to change the design of cooldowns. It may be reasonable to assume they are going to take a look at other cooldowns such as Cold Blood and AR. You may also notice the removal of the DPS aspect of Shadow Step leaving the ability as a pure utility ability.
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Recent Blog Entries by Aldriana
- Ten Things Blizzard Should Change About Rogues Before Mists (08/30/12)
- Mists Beta Thoughts: Feint (03/29/12)
- 5.0 Talents (11/13/11)
- On Monks (10/25/11)
- Fixing Rogues, Part 5: Filler (09/24/11)





