Likely Contained Herein, in no particular order:
a. Deathknights get a fairly bad rap, for a whole slew of (often legitimate) reasons, but their aggregate playskill tends to be the biggest tar against them, especially since they tend to do well as a class in Arena ratings overall.
If you just re-rolled from Hunter or Warlock to DK, and are all psyched to begin your awesome career as a Deathknight, stop by here and check out some pointers before you pop into the EJ forums and contribute to the never-ending stream of crap that is currently getting spouted.
b. PvP: More specifically, no thoughts on how to balance it, but instead, how to make the best of it, win a bit more often, and have fun trying. Ideally some sage anti-DK advice, but no guarentees.
c. Random stuff like comments on politics, I can`t help myself.
a. Deathknights get a fairly bad rap, for a whole slew of (often legitimate) reasons, but their aggregate playskill tends to be the biggest tar against them, especially since they tend to do well as a class in Arena ratings overall.
If you just re-rolled from Hunter or Warlock to DK, and are all psyched to begin your awesome career as a Deathknight, stop by here and check out some pointers before you pop into the EJ forums and contribute to the never-ending stream of crap that is currently getting spouted.
b. PvP: More specifically, no thoughts on how to balance it, but instead, how to make the best of it, win a bit more often, and have fun trying. Ideally some sage anti-DK advice, but no guarentees.
c. Random stuff like comments on politics, I can`t help myself.
Those Deathknights you fight around 2k rating, and what you should do. (Part 1)
Posted 02/17/09 at 2:03 PM by Lanky
Good morrow Comrades.
Once again, we have reached a low valley in World of Warcraft content. Everyone saw this one coming though, and Blizzard`s pacing is much better now, they are pushing to release 3.1 and Ulduar sometime in March (probably), likely coinciding with a new arena season as well. If you are anything at all like me, you got all your great gear already, ninja looted the Sarth twilight drake from your guildmates, and are now happily coasting along playing this game about 2 days a week, slowly stockpiling arena points that you cannot spend (I have all the damn gear, damnit).
In today’s blog, I’d like to discuss how those of you still grinding it out in season 5 can best get ready for season six, what to do about all those pesky DKs floating around in the 2k area, especially in 2s. So let’s discuss how to deal with those dirty fascists of the Arena world: Paladin / DK comps. You must be strong, and you may need to come back from the Dead like Zombie Lenin.
First, a disclaimer. I’m not Serennia, I don’t excrete victory and pvp wisdom from my pores, and I refuse to offer any thoughts about balance, it is already enough of a honeypot for idiocy without any help from me. With all that in mind, lets talk Deathknights, or specifically in the 2s bracket, the Deathknight comps you will see when you do your 10 games around 1900 to 2k. I’m holding forth on this as a reasonably mediocre Deathknight at 2k, with insane gear, as an FYI. What can you do against us?
We’ll go comp by comp, and I will explain why your Warrior Druid setup and your Mage / Rogue setups aren’t working any more.
Part 1. DK / Paladin:
Ahhh yes, the flavour of the season. Paladins currently sport a representation of about 37% in top teams in 2s and 3s. Deathknights and rogues are tied for second place in top representation. Check out SK gaming for a more recent stat set if it worries you. What can be done to defeat DK Paladin in 2s? Well, since this is what I run, I will tell you what we have lost to, and how it happened. Then I will list a few things that individual players / classes can do, specifically to shut the DK down (since that is really the only danger / pressure coming from this comp anyways).
Good / reasonable comps: What you should do
Against DK/Paladin: Priest with Rogue, Shaman with Rogue, Shaman with Feral Druid.
Shaman and Feral: Of these, Shaman Rogue and Shaman Feral are far and away the most dangerous for us, particularly Feral Druids. Feral Burst is really really high (still), and they can bash into cyclone when it is time to target swap. They give the Shaman innervate in addition to mana tide and water shield, which goes a hilariously long way towards winning the mana war against a Paladin healer. So, if you are a Shaman or a Feral Druid, look into this setup. Against Paladin DK you just have your Feral Druid ride the DK’s ass into the ground, almost perma-snaring him, and let your Shaman pillar-dance and shock paladin heals. Once you have applied enough pressure (or gotten the paladin to bubble), bash the DK, cyclone the Paladin, and Maim / Shred / Tiger’s Fury Rip your way to killing the DK, the Shaman just shocks the next cast time heal from the paladin. Holy Shock alone won’t save the DK. This burst is also repeatable ad nauseum, which is why DK Paladin can lose to this setup so easily. You can also just do this on the paladin as well, using a bash, cyclone, hex chain on the DK. That is at least as frustrating, and all you need to do is make sure BoF and Trinkets have been used recently before pulling this off. Remember, your Shaman is healing at peak efficiency, there is no MS effect to deal with here, only reams of burst from the DK, so keep him off your shaman, and you win.
Priest with Rogue: This one is almost totally skill based. My partner and I steamroll this setup all the time, but we also get it handed to us by the better teams using this comp. The magic lies in the double fear mana burns, or in a timely blind on the DK once the paladin is bubbled and it is getting Mass Dispelled. DKs tend to blow their Lichborne at the beginning versus rogues so that they cannot be sapped. The Paladin tries to stay back, and then heal the DK or cast on him to get into combat. Since you may not be able to sap, just get crippling poision up on the DK asap, and keep it there with Shiv. Seriously, just chaining Cripp over and over forces the DK into a very nasty bind, he needs dispels or BoF to go after the priest, he can only Grip the rogue off once before the Paladin is going to need to bubble, and the priest is unaccounted for. Get your fear off, and go for the mana burns. Don’t Power Infusion them unless you can guarantee that you will be mass dispelling the bubble. Boom, run the paladin out of mana, force him to try and run for the Plea, and kill him. Keep crippling up on that DK the whole time, or as much as possible. Dismantle is also your friend here.
Bad Comps: What you can do
Comps that are probably going to get facerolled now: Anything involving a Ret Paladin, Mage Rogue, Any other Double DPS setup, DK with Mage, Warrior with Druid, and (probably) Warrior / Paladin.
Okay, first and foremost, Let’s look at Healing Druids.
Why it sucks: With Plague Strike and Blood Plague being geared specifically as anti-Druid tools, you simply cannot afford to have a DK on your Druid healer. This forces your hand, you need to Chain CC that DK into the ground, if he gets onto your Druid for any length of time, things get really nasty. What really sucks for Warrior Druid in particular is that Chains of Ice is insanely overpowered against this setup. The Deathknight applies a Crippling poison on crack on the warrior, at range, and the Druid cannot dispel it. It affects the DK’s burst output to do this, but sustained use can basically shut the warrior down utterly, letting the Paladin skate away, drop the MS debuff, and reset his HP pool at minimal cost.
What you can do: So, this is how you do it. Start your snaring with hamstring. Keep it up on that DK until he gets BoFed, if you get chains of Ice and see the DK still going for your Healer, Intercept, eat another Chains, Heroic Fury and swap to the paladin. The DK is now SOL 2 frost runes, unless he gets a double Proc from his gloves. Now it is the druids turn. Bear, bash, cyclone, run. This leaves the DK out of it, and the Paladin has a warrior on him. It is the best chance you are going to get to apply pressure. Re-cyclone the DK, don’t root him, he will just grip your warrior. That’s all I’ve got for you. If the Deathknight gets back on your Druid s/he is going to die.
Mage / Rogue: Or, Team Skilltastic.
Why it doesn’t work anymore: See 3.0.9 nerfs. The whole point of this setup was to just steamroll the Paladin into a quick bubble, turn on the DK, and just in general cause massive instant and annoying damage. Nowadays Deathknights are getting really good at the Find the Rogue game, and don’t be surprised if your mage gets gripped into Strangulate, forcing an ice block right away, which of course, means you basically lose.
What you can do: Sap the Paladin, and get the Rogue onto the DK. Hide your mage, and have him go over and Sheep the Paladin directly from the sap, preventing Blessing of Sacrifice. The DK will be busy going into Frost Presence and blowing CD’s to live. Dismantle him early. Use Mirror Images as soon as you need to go defensive, that random polymorph is incredibly annoying. The Paladin will probably have to bubble, and the DK will be blowing strangulate defensively. Once the Paladin has bubbled, scatter and reset with Blind or Vanish, Evocate if you need health. Go back, Sheep the DK, or attempt to until you can (trinket or AMS may still be up), and then kill the paladin. Your mage needs to be Frost, all this no-skill Arcane crap is just free wins for DK / Paladin now, so look into control strategies, not slamming the Mutilate and AP - Barrage buttons.
Warrior / Paladin:
Simple as this: Your Warrior needs to be Fury, with good weapons and gear, and he needs to not suck at timed burst on the Paladin. You need to ride MS to any victories here, and I can assure that the DK will be doing way way more overall damage to your healer. Your Fury Warrior needs to hit as hard as he possibly can to defeat DK Paladin.
Okay that is it for now. Part 2 will look at where we will be going in the next season, and what 3.1 may mean for Arenas in general.
All Power to the Soviets! (etc)
Once again, we have reached a low valley in World of Warcraft content. Everyone saw this one coming though, and Blizzard`s pacing is much better now, they are pushing to release 3.1 and Ulduar sometime in March (probably), likely coinciding with a new arena season as well. If you are anything at all like me, you got all your great gear already, ninja looted the Sarth twilight drake from your guildmates, and are now happily coasting along playing this game about 2 days a week, slowly stockpiling arena points that you cannot spend (I have all the damn gear, damnit).
In today’s blog, I’d like to discuss how those of you still grinding it out in season 5 can best get ready for season six, what to do about all those pesky DKs floating around in the 2k area, especially in 2s. So let’s discuss how to deal with those dirty fascists of the Arena world: Paladin / DK comps. You must be strong, and you may need to come back from the Dead like Zombie Lenin.
First, a disclaimer. I’m not Serennia, I don’t excrete victory and pvp wisdom from my pores, and I refuse to offer any thoughts about balance, it is already enough of a honeypot for idiocy without any help from me. With all that in mind, lets talk Deathknights, or specifically in the 2s bracket, the Deathknight comps you will see when you do your 10 games around 1900 to 2k. I’m holding forth on this as a reasonably mediocre Deathknight at 2k, with insane gear, as an FYI. What can you do against us?
We’ll go comp by comp, and I will explain why your Warrior Druid setup and your Mage / Rogue setups aren’t working any more.
Part 1. DK / Paladin:
Ahhh yes, the flavour of the season. Paladins currently sport a representation of about 37% in top teams in 2s and 3s. Deathknights and rogues are tied for second place in top representation. Check out SK gaming for a more recent stat set if it worries you. What can be done to defeat DK Paladin in 2s? Well, since this is what I run, I will tell you what we have lost to, and how it happened. Then I will list a few things that individual players / classes can do, specifically to shut the DK down (since that is really the only danger / pressure coming from this comp anyways).
Good / reasonable comps: What you should do
Against DK/Paladin: Priest with Rogue, Shaman with Rogue, Shaman with Feral Druid.
Shaman and Feral: Of these, Shaman Rogue and Shaman Feral are far and away the most dangerous for us, particularly Feral Druids. Feral Burst is really really high (still), and they can bash into cyclone when it is time to target swap. They give the Shaman innervate in addition to mana tide and water shield, which goes a hilariously long way towards winning the mana war against a Paladin healer. So, if you are a Shaman or a Feral Druid, look into this setup. Against Paladin DK you just have your Feral Druid ride the DK’s ass into the ground, almost perma-snaring him, and let your Shaman pillar-dance and shock paladin heals. Once you have applied enough pressure (or gotten the paladin to bubble), bash the DK, cyclone the Paladin, and Maim / Shred / Tiger’s Fury Rip your way to killing the DK, the Shaman just shocks the next cast time heal from the paladin. Holy Shock alone won’t save the DK. This burst is also repeatable ad nauseum, which is why DK Paladin can lose to this setup so easily. You can also just do this on the paladin as well, using a bash, cyclone, hex chain on the DK. That is at least as frustrating, and all you need to do is make sure BoF and Trinkets have been used recently before pulling this off. Remember, your Shaman is healing at peak efficiency, there is no MS effect to deal with here, only reams of burst from the DK, so keep him off your shaman, and you win.
Priest with Rogue: This one is almost totally skill based. My partner and I steamroll this setup all the time, but we also get it handed to us by the better teams using this comp. The magic lies in the double fear mana burns, or in a timely blind on the DK once the paladin is bubbled and it is getting Mass Dispelled. DKs tend to blow their Lichborne at the beginning versus rogues so that they cannot be sapped. The Paladin tries to stay back, and then heal the DK or cast on him to get into combat. Since you may not be able to sap, just get crippling poision up on the DK asap, and keep it there with Shiv. Seriously, just chaining Cripp over and over forces the DK into a very nasty bind, he needs dispels or BoF to go after the priest, he can only Grip the rogue off once before the Paladin is going to need to bubble, and the priest is unaccounted for. Get your fear off, and go for the mana burns. Don’t Power Infusion them unless you can guarantee that you will be mass dispelling the bubble. Boom, run the paladin out of mana, force him to try and run for the Plea, and kill him. Keep crippling up on that DK the whole time, or as much as possible. Dismantle is also your friend here.
Bad Comps: What you can do
Comps that are probably going to get facerolled now: Anything involving a Ret Paladin, Mage Rogue, Any other Double DPS setup, DK with Mage, Warrior with Druid, and (probably) Warrior / Paladin.
Okay, first and foremost, Let’s look at Healing Druids.
Why it sucks: With Plague Strike and Blood Plague being geared specifically as anti-Druid tools, you simply cannot afford to have a DK on your Druid healer. This forces your hand, you need to Chain CC that DK into the ground, if he gets onto your Druid for any length of time, things get really nasty. What really sucks for Warrior Druid in particular is that Chains of Ice is insanely overpowered against this setup. The Deathknight applies a Crippling poison on crack on the warrior, at range, and the Druid cannot dispel it. It affects the DK’s burst output to do this, but sustained use can basically shut the warrior down utterly, letting the Paladin skate away, drop the MS debuff, and reset his HP pool at minimal cost.
What you can do: So, this is how you do it. Start your snaring with hamstring. Keep it up on that DK until he gets BoFed, if you get chains of Ice and see the DK still going for your Healer, Intercept, eat another Chains, Heroic Fury and swap to the paladin. The DK is now SOL 2 frost runes, unless he gets a double Proc from his gloves. Now it is the druids turn. Bear, bash, cyclone, run. This leaves the DK out of it, and the Paladin has a warrior on him. It is the best chance you are going to get to apply pressure. Re-cyclone the DK, don’t root him, he will just grip your warrior. That’s all I’ve got for you. If the Deathknight gets back on your Druid s/he is going to die.
Mage / Rogue: Or, Team Skilltastic.
Why it doesn’t work anymore: See 3.0.9 nerfs. The whole point of this setup was to just steamroll the Paladin into a quick bubble, turn on the DK, and just in general cause massive instant and annoying damage. Nowadays Deathknights are getting really good at the Find the Rogue game, and don’t be surprised if your mage gets gripped into Strangulate, forcing an ice block right away, which of course, means you basically lose.
What you can do: Sap the Paladin, and get the Rogue onto the DK. Hide your mage, and have him go over and Sheep the Paladin directly from the sap, preventing Blessing of Sacrifice. The DK will be busy going into Frost Presence and blowing CD’s to live. Dismantle him early. Use Mirror Images as soon as you need to go defensive, that random polymorph is incredibly annoying. The Paladin will probably have to bubble, and the DK will be blowing strangulate defensively. Once the Paladin has bubbled, scatter and reset with Blind or Vanish, Evocate if you need health. Go back, Sheep the DK, or attempt to until you can (trinket or AMS may still be up), and then kill the paladin. Your mage needs to be Frost, all this no-skill Arcane crap is just free wins for DK / Paladin now, so look into control strategies, not slamming the Mutilate and AP - Barrage buttons.
Warrior / Paladin:
Simple as this: Your Warrior needs to be Fury, with good weapons and gear, and he needs to not suck at timed burst on the Paladin. You need to ride MS to any victories here, and I can assure that the DK will be doing way way more overall damage to your healer. Your Fury Warrior needs to hit as hard as he possibly can to defeat DK Paladin.
Okay that is it for now. Part 2 will look at where we will be going in the next season, and what 3.1 may mean for Arenas in general.
All Power to the Soviets! (etc)
Total Comments 6
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Next time spec into 80 to all resist (I dislike swapping Auras)!
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Re: Priest/Rogue. Why doesn't your DK turn around and push the Rogue's shit in.
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Yeah all your DK has to do is sit on the rogue and as long as your pally can LOS mana burns you run the priest oom. Coordinate the dk's defensive cooldowns with Divine Plea. Use Hoj/Rep/Strangulate on the priest to stop mana burns when you need to heal. You can also use your offensive cooldowns when you need to heal to force the priest to heal instead of mana burning. If you can avoid the priests fears or somehow stop the priest from burning when you're feared (death grip out of LOS and COI spam). Use trinket on blind, Bubble if you fuck up and need to avoid mana burns. If the rogue is chasing the pally down just judge justice and freedom yourself while pillar humping and hitting him with big death grips, the priest will run oom far before you.
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The DK cannot sit on the Rogue if the rogue chooses to leave, as long as the priest is in LoS, Chains gets wiped off quickly, and you need to wait on BoF to play catchup after the DG.
As I said though, when we do lose to that comp, its because we get outskilled / outplayed, not because the comp is inherently great against DK / Paladin like Feral Shaman is. |
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Feral Shaman sounds like an awesome spec for the next expansion.
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I haven't met Feral/RestoShaman yet, but what i'd have my DK do is hump the Feral.
Shouldn't the DK outdamage the Feral(cat) in 1v1? It also means the feral has a very hard time cycloning. And against all teams with a RestoShaman: don't be afraid of earthshock! Just keep your partner topped of with flashes. Worst case ES sets you back 3.5 seconds, while costing the shaman 1.5 seconds and quite some mana. |
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