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To Addon, or not to add on?

Posted 05/20/09 at 3:43 PM by Vectivus
This is a question that I've wrestled with several times throughout my WoW career (including on these forums - How much modding is necessary?

How much modification to the WoW UI is required for high-level game play?

I've done serious progression raiding as all three major 'roles' - first as a healer, then as a DPS, and most recently (and for the longest) as a tank. There's definitely major differences in requisite information to be effective, but I think there's an underlying common thread.

To begin with, the WoW default UI has evolved a lot. Forgetting recent advents, like the built-in threat meter or the recent addition of gear sets, there was a time at which the default interface didn't have raid frames, a LFG tool, and a variety of other major features. To say that the default UI is 'crap' now is doing a huge disservice to the extremely significant evolution it has experienced.

On the other hand, there is a huge amount of valuable data - and more intuitive ways to display that data - that the WoW UI doesn't capitalize on. From the old-school CT Raid Frames to present-day mods like Grid, there's been numerous attempts to improve upon the initial interface Blizzard provided us.

In my experience, there are three major camps of players when it comes to UI preferences:

1. The default purists. These people either don't want any mods, don't think the mods help, or maybe don't know how to mod. They use nothing except for the tools BlizzGod gave them.

2. The average player. This group encompasses most everyone who plays WoW seriously, as there's simply some things that the Blizzard UI doesn't do well enough, or lacks altogether.

3. The UI 'artist'. These players want their UI to be minimalist, or flawless, or aligned to the pixel; they want every trace of Blizzard's inadequate/obsolete attempts at design eradicated.

For myself, I've run that whole range. When I started playing, I was a class 1 - I wouldn't install anything. I made it through until Naxx 1.0 without having a single addon installed; the straw that broke the camel's back, funnily enough, was the guild that used a Rogue Evasion rotation to tank Instructor Razuvious between MC'd adds (don't ask). We had to know our precise* threat in order to plan out Evasions.

*If anyone remembers early KTM, using the word precise there is a blasphemy, at best.

I hit the class 3 'artist' stage late in my tanking career - in fact, it was more motivated by my push for Gladiator than anything. I needed everything to be in a specific location to react quickly and effectively enough to be competitive, and every mod that had the slightest issue come patch day was world-ruining.

Most people, however, are the class 2 - they use a handful of mods, either out of preference or as prescribed. They can play, albeit possibly not well, on a default UI (generally, a few quick video/interface/keybinding tweaks, and you're good to go).

I think it's fantastic that Blizzard opened the doors to all this modification and improvement, but I can also see the merits in a closed interface, where no third-party development is allowed - it's a lot easier to plan around for the developers, and it creates one less barrier to entry for newer players (since learning the default UI and learning how to build a rational, useful modified UI are two totally disparate beasts).

In Blizzard's new IP MMO, I hope to see a much stronger, more function-oriented interface. I think they can, and should, continue to allow for third-party modifications, but I hope that they will learn from how the WoW UI and the players' expectations of it have evolved to give us something that is intuitive, clean, and powerful.
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Old
Malan's Avatar
It's been interesting playing LOTRO where there are no UI modifications possible other than some minor reskinning of the action bars. To compensate Turbine lets you move and resize every element of the built-in interface.
Posted 05/20/09 at 3:58 PM by Malan Malan is offline
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Celenia's Avatar
One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the present interface was in place in 2004 and probably designed even earlier. There's been some niceties to extend the functionality but it still has the UI conventions and art from release. The 2004 UI is what's assumed in the game's training and help systems, so if it were to change, it would have to be with some large break from tradition like an expansion pack. I bet we'll a more modern interface appear one or two more packs down the line.

One thing I give major credit to Blizzard for is using good fonts. The default fonts in nearly every other MMO are just dreadful cliched fantasy fonts which are grainy, difficult to read, and stylistically dated.
Posted 05/20/09 at 5:42 PM by Celenia Celenia is offline
Old
The game is tuned around using mods, IMHO. I can't imagine how difficult the raiding would be without DBM and good raid UIs.
Posted 05/26/09 at 12:21 PM by Panamah Panamah is offline
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Vectivus's Avatar
There's something to be said for personal aesthetic preferences, but Blizzard does provide a fully functional raid UI, and most of the major boss abilities are clearly announced via the default interface; about the only noticeable difference is the absence of boss ability cooldowns.

I wouldn't want to raid without addons right now, but if they added some customization/extensibility options to some of the existing functionality in the default interface, I can see where it would be entirely viable.
Posted 05/26/09 at 3:51 PM by Vectivus Vectivus is offline
Old
frmorrison's Avatar
I believe the game is tuned around the default interface. Other than timer bars from BigWigs, Grid for healing, and Cooldown timers for abilities, I could live with the default interface.

The recent addition of Equipment Manger removed one item from that list.
Posted 05/26/09 at 6:28 PM by frmorrison frmorrison is offline
Old
Esoth's Avatar
There are two parts of the default Blizzard UI that I do not understand why they exist as they do. Unit frames - particularly player, target, and target of target frames. Simply making them movable would be an enormous step. Secondly, dot timers. Weeding out your debuffs and dots from everything else on a boss these days with the default UI seems simply horrifying for classes that have to manage these things.
Posted 05/28/09 at 5:36 PM by Esoth Esoth is offline
Old
Vectivus's Avatar
Nothing in the default UI is movable, because there is already very limited space for the amount of information that the Blizzard interface provides. Allowing movement makes what information the player can see unpredictable, which is a Do Not Want™ of the highest degree from a developer's standpoint.

Arguably, some of it could be done better or differently with a great deal of ease - for example, current durability (as a percentage) could be displayed on the minimap or in place of the experience/reputation bar (this is a woefully-underused space on Blizzard's part). Unfortunately, at this stage in WoW's development, it's unlikely that they'll massively overhaul the default UI in any meaningful way.

I do hope they take a lot of lessons about how to most effectively provide information to players via the interface away from WoW for their upcoming MMO. It will more than likely be very similar in terms of artwork and style, but the actual content and layout could be significantly improved upon.

Edit - As far as a debuff timer, they've come a long way since WoW Classic. Your personal debuffs are the first thing displayed in your debuff list on a target, and they are physically larger than the other debuffs present. This didn't used to be the case.

This goes back to the dichotomy between ease-of-use/"feel" and what a competitive, high-level player wants. To someone who is picking up the game for the very first time, having all those numbers and bars thrown at them would be overwhelming and confusing. It's a necessary evil, to some degree.

I think the only way of getting around that - and I would love to see this in MMO2 - is to have two default UI implementations. A simple checkbox/option to turn on the "advanced" interface, with many of these necessary for raiding/competitive gaming features included, would do so much for WoW; I expect the same would be true of the upcoming game.
Posted 05/29/09 at 12:13 PM by Vectivus Vectivus is offline
Updated 05/29/09 at 12:18 PM by Vectivus (debuff timers)
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Sovereignty's Avatar
I'd rather the default UI stay relatively simple. While things like dot timers, cooldown monitors or grid-like raid-frames are important to some people they are by no means necessary for everyone. The addon community is far more responsive to the needs of the player base than Blizzard can be. From what I've read Blizzard considers their current model (weak default interface with the ability to addon) remarkably successful and I tend to agree.
Posted 05/29/09 at 4:28 PM by Sovereignty Sovereignty is offline
Old
Vectivus's Avatar
I wouldn't disagree with that, but I think perhaps you're overestimating the extent of what I would like to see them do with it.

Where you might be thinking that I want the default interface to look like some mashed-up monstrosity (e.g. your blog entry from yesterday), I don't - rather, I would like to see them identify what information a player needs, and present that information to them.

As an example, how long did we go where Blizzard didn't have a focus frame in the default UI, but made it plainly available to addon developers? Or target-of-target? Adding notes to the friends list? Letting us see what raids we were locked to? As the game evolves, the needs of the players evolve.

If Blizzard doesn't want to develop the full range of options available within their UI, that's fine - I'm perfectly happy to let the mod community use the extensibility and make aesthetic or performance changes. The default UI, though, should provide all of the information that a player requires to participate fully in all areas of the game.
Posted 05/29/09 at 4:52 PM by Vectivus Vectivus is offline
Old
Malan's Avatar
I've always found it odd that Blizzard provided loads of info through their API that was only accessible to a third party addon. If they felt a particular frame or bit of info was useful enough to provide the means to retrieve it, why didn't they make it part of the base UI (even as an advanced 'toggle' item)?
Posted 05/30/09 at 5:08 PM by Malan Malan is offline
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Sovereignty's Avatar
I think the development of 3rd party addons was deliberate; it keeps developers engaged as well as end-users who like to augment their UIs.

I'm curious what information you mean specifically though.
Posted 05/30/09 at 10:29 PM by Sovereignty Sovereignty is offline
Old
Adoriele's Avatar
A lot of it's because if they were to provide it with their own user interface, they'd have to provide massive QA, provide maintenance on it, and/or spend time making the new functionality fit thematically with the existing ui. Take, for example, the ToT frames. When you're designing a custom ui, you have complete control over where to put them, and it only affects the people who download your version (typically, only you). When Blizzard added them, though, they had to make sure it was in a place where it was easy to understand its purpose, and make sure it didn't conflict with pre-existing elements like your target frame or, more detailed, the target debuffs.

Presenting a toggle fixes it to some extent - you have the choice, and if you don't like it they can tell you to just turn it off - but poses philosophical issues such as how that toggle should default (do we turn it on and mess with everyone's ui, or leave it off and have to figure out a way to tell people it's there), and other customer service issues like making sure that people understand how to use it if it's complex. For example, take the new objectives window. It was slipped in without very much publicity (not sure if even the patch notes mention it), and while it provides some much-needed extra functionality, it also mucked with just about everyone's system that had a minimap mod that was previously controlling it. Now obviously they felt it was worth the potential issues to include it, but there are likely a few other API that they don't feel the same way about, and perhaps never will.
Posted 05/31/09 at 8:02 PM by Adoriele Adoriele is offline
Old
I remember back in Classic WoW when Cosmos was the only addon around. AT one point, Blizzard was actually discussing whether they wanted to allow 3rd party addons at all. Even with the giant shit-pile that Cosmos was, the game was pretty unplayable without it. It's nice to see how far the game has come.

If you ever want to see an example of what fail can come of base-ui, go play Eve.
Posted 07/08/09 at 5:33 PM by Goldengiff Goldengiff is offline
Old
Ishara's Avatar
Quote:
The game is tuned around using mods, IMHO. I can't imagine how difficult the raiding would be without DBM and good raid UIs.
Chromaggus is a good example of where they tuned encounters around UIs; Decursive/Emergency Monitor etc. Was certainly a step in the right direction to block those types of addons.
Posted 07/12/09 at 11:46 AM by Ishara Ishara is offline
Old
emptyrepublic's Avatar
Quote:
If you ever want to see an example of what fail can come of base-ui, go play Eve.
Good god is EVE's interface horrifying. The only thing I liked about it was that it had a in-game text web browser.

To WoW's credit it does have a very good starter UI. When I began playing in late '06 I didn't install a mod for at least 6-8 months in (mainly because I was ignorant of them). Nonetheless, I managed to play without problem.
Posted 07/22/09 at 2:48 PM by emptyrepublic emptyrepublic is offline
 
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