Dear Blizzard: Elemental Shaman Itemisation
Dear Blizzard,
Could you please re-think the way caster gear is itemised?
Most of the gear that is showing up on the PTR at the moment has Spirit or MP5 on it. Not much of an issue for other classes, given they get some benefit from spirit (although for some this bonus is fairly minimal), but Elemental gains precisely zero from any regen itemisation. What this means is that the few items that are added without regen stats will be hotly contested by DPS casters, or forcing us to resort to taking regen items for smaller upgrades than will be available otherwise.
The current T7 cloaks, rings and necks are a good example of the problem. All bar two rings have some sort of regen on them, and of those two, the sole hit ring drops in 10man off a single boss, while the other is a KT25 drop. The rest drop fairly frequently, and odds are most raiders are disenchanting these by now. Cloaks are similar, with a best in slot from Sarth+2, followed closely by a random Naxx25 boss drop, and a ilvl 200 craftable.
6 out of 19 necklaces don't have regen stats (4/15 when you remove the EoE quest items), cloaks are 3/13, and rings are at 8/19 (although only one of these is above ilvl 200, and only an extra 2 from raid instances).
Why are regen stats bad you say? For starters, Shaman get virtually nothing from Spirit. In fact, with the planned changes to regen outside of the Five Second Rule, we'll get even less. Mp5 won't be affected by this, but for a class than can use 160-170 mps, but regenerates ~67 mps from self buffs alone (Unrelenting Storm, Water Shield, Mana Spring), forcing us to take additional mana regen is like making Feral Druids take extra defence rating to remain crit immune (Yes, I know that they get dodge from Def rating, but it was the best analogy I could think of). We don't need more mana. In fact, come 3.1 the ideal build will skip Convection entirely, because we don't need the 10% mana reduction (and even then, mana issues should be fine).
The Too Long, Didn't Read version of this post is as follows: Unless something changes with caster itemisation, Elemental Shaman will find themselves short changed gear wise, and as such end up under performing as we progress through Ulduar and beyond (and since gear allocation is usually based on performance, this will end up being a negative feedback loop).
Generally I like making suggestions to fix problems that I "complain" about, and in the case of Elemental there are a few.
The ultimate solution would to be improve caster itemisation so that Elemental and Restoration Shaman use the same base gear, as well as less class specific itemisation of non-armour items. If melee itemisation can be fixed with the ArmorPen & haste changes, why can't caster itemisation be improved too?
[insert witty signature line here]
Binks.
PS: I'm not bitter and twisted, I'm just voicing an opinion here.
PPS: I would sign it hugs & kisses, but I felt that might send the wrong message.
Could you please re-think the way caster gear is itemised?
Most of the gear that is showing up on the PTR at the moment has Spirit or MP5 on it. Not much of an issue for other classes, given they get some benefit from spirit (although for some this bonus is fairly minimal), but Elemental gains precisely zero from any regen itemisation. What this means is that the few items that are added without regen stats will be hotly contested by DPS casters, or forcing us to resort to taking regen items for smaller upgrades than will be available otherwise.
The current T7 cloaks, rings and necks are a good example of the problem. All bar two rings have some sort of regen on them, and of those two, the sole hit ring drops in 10man off a single boss, while the other is a KT25 drop. The rest drop fairly frequently, and odds are most raiders are disenchanting these by now. Cloaks are similar, with a best in slot from Sarth+2, followed closely by a random Naxx25 boss drop, and a ilvl 200 craftable.
6 out of 19 necklaces don't have regen stats (4/15 when you remove the EoE quest items), cloaks are 3/13, and rings are at 8/19 (although only one of these is above ilvl 200, and only an extra 2 from raid instances).
Why are regen stats bad you say? For starters, Shaman get virtually nothing from Spirit. In fact, with the planned changes to regen outside of the Five Second Rule, we'll get even less. Mp5 won't be affected by this, but for a class than can use 160-170 mps, but regenerates ~67 mps from self buffs alone (Unrelenting Storm, Water Shield, Mana Spring), forcing us to take additional mana regen is like making Feral Druids take extra defence rating to remain crit immune (Yes, I know that they get dodge from Def rating, but it was the best analogy I could think of). We don't need more mana. In fact, come 3.1 the ideal build will skip Convection entirely, because we don't need the 10% mana reduction (and even then, mana issues should be fine).
The Too Long, Didn't Read version of this post is as follows: Unless something changes with caster itemisation, Elemental Shaman will find themselves short changed gear wise, and as such end up under performing as we progress through Ulduar and beyond (and since gear allocation is usually based on performance, this will end up being a negative feedback loop).
Generally I like making suggestions to fix problems that I "complain" about, and in the case of Elemental there are a few.
- Swap Unrelenting Storm & Nature's Blessing, so that Elemental gets more spellpower and Resto gets more mp5
- Change Lightning Shield to give a spellpower bonus as it's passive effect, possibly via an elemental talent.
- Add a talent to convert spirit and/or mp5 into additional spellpower/haste
The ultimate solution would to be improve caster itemisation so that Elemental and Restoration Shaman use the same base gear, as well as less class specific itemisation of non-armour items. If melee itemisation can be fixed with the ArmorPen & haste changes, why can't caster itemisation be improved too?
[insert witty signature line here]
Binks.
PS: I'm not bitter and twisted, I'm just voicing an opinion here.
PPS: I would sign it hugs & kisses, but I felt that might send the wrong message.
Total Comments 14
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That cloak is Sarth +2 btw (the +3 only adds a mount).
It is possible they assume Elementals have regen stats when they are balancing them. However, I would like to see a mp5 buff. Something like 10% of your mp5 goes into spell power. |
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I think the devs would actually like casters to value mana regeneration, but don't want dps casters who don't itemise heavily for regeneration to sit there 'wanding' (yes, I know elemental shaman can't even do that...) for minutes at a time on really long fights.
Spirit -> spellpower talents is one way they've tried to achieve it for other dps casters but look on the Boomkin or Warlock forums and they view spirit more as a byproduct than something they look for, gem for, or enchant for. As such, hit/haste/crit/sp rings/necks/cloaks without regen are always going to be the most desirable for nearly every caster spec. YMMV but I think they were really onto something with Arcane mages. Mana management became a big thing for them because their spells / talents allowed tthem to 'convert' extra mana into extra dps ... and conversely to go OOM if they did it wrong. Elemental shamans in the raid setting can spam their optimal rotation indefinitely barely needing to Thunderstorm let alone pot even in the longest fights .. but conversely we have no 'dump' for excess mana that allows a well-played Shaman to finish a fight OOM but with more dps than the Shaman next to them wiith a 90% full mana bar. So ... personally I'd prefer something (a spell or a talent) that would give us higher-damage mana-costly options that couldn't be thoughtlessly spammed. Regen gear and talents would then directly translate to dps over the course of longer fights. There are plenty of possibilities as to what form that could take - one that springs to mind is having a 'stacking' flame shock where if you reapply FlS before its duration ends the DoT stacks but the cost of the spell significantly increases per stack. |
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Mana management is big for Arcane Mages, but mana regen on gear is not. The conversion rate for mana regen to DPS for Arcane Mages is extremely poor. They, like all other casters, view pure DPS stats as preferable.
Being able to dump mana would certainly be a step up for Elemental Shaman, but that doesn't inherently make mana regeneration as valuable as DPS (though it *could*). |
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Quote:
Cloaks are similar, with a best in slot from Sarth+2, followed closely by a random Naxx25 boss drop, and a ilvl 200 craftable.
So if anyone can drop me a pointer (name) for this item, that'd be awesome. Thanks and sorry to be offtopic-ing this article ![]() |
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Deathchill cloak
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Cheers !
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Quote:
So ... personally I'd prefer something (a spell or a talent) that would give us higher-damage mana-costly options that couldn't be thoughtlessly spammed. Regen gear and talents would then directly translate to dps over the course of longer fights. There are plenty of possibilities as to what form that could take - one that springs to mind is having a 'stacking' flame shock where if you reapply FlS before its duration ends the DoT stacks but the cost of the spell significantly increases per stack.
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Quote:
* Add a talent to convert spirit and/or mp5 into additional spellpower/haste
Today they are completly wasted. In future, as you suggest, the ilvl may be spent more useful on SP/Haste/Crit than on Spirit/mp5 even if Ele got a talent to make use of it. |
Updated 03/13/09 at 11:19 PM by Satellite (grammar) |
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I agree with you on a lot of points. However, as Blizzard said with Naxx when people were complaining about itemization, they don't want to make perfect itemization like we saw in Sunwell and most of BT until getting towards the final raid(s)? of WOTLK.
Basically, aside from flat out nerfs, they're keeping everyone in check by not releasing well itemized gear. i.e. DST style trinkets that will be the envy of everyone through every instance in the first raiding content. It's a stupid concept in my opinion but it seems they're trying to make the game difficult not by challenging encounters, but by restricting your gameplay ability, sort of a shitty design but, there's nothing else out there with community WoW has, so even though a better game may exist, it doesn't have the community to support it like WoW. |
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I hear you on the comment of not wanting perfect itemization until the later raids.. however, I think there's a difference between sub-optimal ratios of stats and stats that are completely useless. A warlock may wish that a particular item had less spirit and more spellpower, but at least the warlock gets some benefit out of that spirit. With elemental, the problem is that many of the pieces of gear that seem to be intended for us contain a stat that has absolutely no value: mp5.
On top of that, warlocks still get quite a bit of mileage out of spirit. Some warlock specs get about as much raw damage from spirit as elemental shaman get from crit. So all the new mail gear designed for us that has sp, mp5, and crit (sure seems like there's alot of it) has about the same relative damage value as a piece of warlock gear with sp, strength, and spirit. That's just sad. I continuously find myself on the verge of rerolling because I can't help but feel the developers just don't get it. There are alot of great players and theorycrafters that are squeezing all that's possible out of the elemental tree.. but we're working with garbage. We're a spec with a disproportionately high number of static buffs that scales poorly with additional stats.. we only scale well with 3 stats (sp, hit, and haste) and, worse, only scale at all with a total of 5 (the missing 2 being crit and int). This is all on top of the fact that, as Bink has pointed out, the items intended for us in the next patch are far from optimal. |
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As I have read today even our Tier8 will have mp5 on it.
They must have an evil masterplan, not a very good one but a very evil. |
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My problem with itemization complaints is that as long as your dps in whatever gear is available to you is balanced with other classes, it doesn't matter. Hell, they could stack every piece of caster mail with spirit, and as long as we do the same damage roughly as Spriests/Moonkins and slightly behind pures, it is fine (then again, if in that situation wearing cloth put is significantly ahead of where we should be, that would be bad).
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I like the idea of a elemental shaman Mana dump as well, maybe make a Elemental shaman "execute" type ability that prevents burst right off the bat but allows us to dump our mana at the end of a flight without being too bursty in PVP
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The newest PTR has a properly itemized Elemental set (no mp5).
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