OK ive read your complaints, ive seen the 'nerfs' and 'buffs' but i decided to go to the ptr and test the changes myself.
let me explain the scenario. me, lvl 70 Prot warrior with all the rage cost reducing talents, full defiance and improved thunderclap.
shandis lvl 70 NE druid feral specced etc, ill let him pitch in on his exact build/gear setup.
buffmemore lvl 70 DWARF warrior non prot spec
Joecrack lvl 70 human male warrior non prot spec.
location = regular mode underbog, picked it because we could tank the trash without worrying about heals and botched aggro. the sole reason of this test was to see and compare threat generation between druids/warriors.
druid wins this test hands down, i cannot generate enough threat (at least with this weapon, didnt have a slower weapon to test with) i pulled the mob but as soon as shandis started attacking it went to him.
2nd test. autoattack+sunder armor/lacerate, this was tested on the bog giants in underbog. i pulled the giant and started attacking same time as shandis, then started spamming sunder as shandis was spamming lacerate. the giant stayed on me because i have full defiance. next giant we had buffmemore do the same routine with shandis without defiance and lacerate generated more aggro than non defianced sunder. we repeated this test 2x with same results.
3rd test. autoattack +thunderclap/swipe on the spore thingies 3packs i did the pull and started thunderclapping same time as shandis, at first the mobs were on me but after shandis did a few swipes they all turned to him, notice i have improved thunderclap that does more dmg+slow and defiance. i attribute this to TC having a cooldown and swipe having no cooldown. test was performed 2x with identical results.
4th test. autoattack+shield slam/mangle. we BOTH started out with full rage bars we built up from a random trash pack and went to spam mangle/shield slam on one of the bog giants. i got the first shield slam off but as soon as shandis started mangling the giant stuck to him like glue. they both have same cooldown so the only conclusion i can make is mangle>shield slam as far as threat goes.
test was repeated 2x with identical results.
5th test. the 1st boss in underbog. spam all your abilities and see who holds aggro better. i win in this case which isnt surprising because thats how blizzard describes a prot warrior, the best aggro/mitigation for bosses. we did that untill we all wiped due to us being idiots and not moving away from the mushroom :P
all members involved in this test will back this post up as soon as they see it. here is the screenshot of our party.
note imageshack will not last long so if someone can please rehost it i would appreciate it.
my conclusion. druids are still GREAT tanks! especially for 5man content and damn near close to warriors when it comes to boss fights, i wouldnt hesitate to let one of our guild druids to tank a boss if they had sufficient gear for it. if you dont believe me and other people that witnessed this, wait untill you can test this yourself, go to the PTR and try it out. its FAR from as bad as it looks i think youll be surprised.
I appreciate your testing. I have the following issues:
1. Why bother testing auto attack aggro?
2. Lacerate is not functionally equal to sunder armor. There are many, many mobs that are immune to it. While they may have the same relative threat I'd think you'd even agree that sunder is not your main aggro getter anyways. ( Yes I have played a MT warrior for a year as well.)
3. The mangle test is encouraging because it seems to me that they sneakily added a threat bonus to mangle above its prior functionality. This makes me happier.
Your boss test is questionable because in most occasions, the first person hit will be able to hold aggro based on the increased rage taken from damage, unless the second person's aggro generation is grossly stronger.
Originally Posted by Apate
Zyla, International Man of a Certain Standard.
Originally Posted by Bubbs
That's right, I met my future wife through Zyla. :shudder:
if you have a better suggestion on how to test this im all ears.
Well it works for a cursory look into it. The only things I could think of would be to either test threat/second or threat/rage with the assistance of someone doing small white damage unarmed and seeing when they pull–but you'd have to be a little masochistic to go that far. :P
Last edited by Axium : 02/24/07 at 3:33 PM.
Reason: mm spelling
if you have a better suggestion on how to test this im all ears.
The first thing that comes to mind is download a threat generation mod like KTM. Test it out so that it actually works (that you pull aggro at 110% of the other tanks threat).
After you know it works properly you start tanking 2 identical mobs at the same time and see who generates the most threat according to KTM. Not only will it show who generates most threat but also the relative difference.
Or have someone tank and then a druid and a warrior both try to get it off the first tank?
Not to mention a druid in dps gear will create heaps more aggro, but he won't have the tanking stats (should be around 50% armor reduction with dps leather) needed to stay alive vs a mob which matters, so which gear was he using?
 I just found the threat on the PTR forums. I find it quite amusing that the druid was in dps gear, which conveniently isn't mentioned in the post. This is like saying, We where holding an aggro competition between a fury warrior and a prot one on a boss, the fury won at multiple mob tanking on trash since he used cleave/sweeping strikes (or however it is called), and the prot one won at the boss. Do you see how faulty such a test would be?
Anyway enough ranting for me, I'll go burn a candle now for some better feral itemisation in raiding dungeons, since we'll need it.
One of the really great abilities of a druid atm is to reasonably hold aggro on several mobs. In heroic instances it might be required for the druid to do that as well. Since the damage incoming to the druid is increased however, so is the required healing. I would be much more interested in how the changes on the test server affect this situation than pure tanking power against a single mob. Swipe damage has been reduced significantly there, so the question is: does it still generate enough threat to save the healers? Warriors do have a few more tricks up their sleeve to generate aggro on a group, but for Druids its just Demo Roar and Swipe.
"If you cant say what you're meaning,
you can never mean what youre saying" - Babylon 5, Centauri Minister of Intelligence