gems and iLevel

GoG · 02/26/07, 1:53 PM

Do gems use the normal item budgeting?

Here is my confusion:

In the blue gems we have, +18 healing, +9 and 2 mana per 5, and 3 mana per 5. In this case, though I don't know the exact ilevel formula, some sort of diminishing returns has been applied for stat stacking.

However, we also have these three gems, +8 agi, +4 agi and +4 hit, and +8 hit. Here it seems there is no normal ilevel budgeting.

Just as an additional aside, will this be the best dps metagem down the road http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25897.

Nite_Moogle · 02/26/07, 2:09 PM

More likely it's that 4 MP/5 is just too much for the budget so they have to go one point lower. I doubt 3 MP/5 fills the entire budget.

Malan · 02/26/07, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by GoG

Just as an additional aside, will this be the best dps metagem down the road http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25897.

With blessing of Salvation in a raid, unless there is a future fight that is so absolutely threat sensitive as to need that, I can't really see any DPS class actually wearing that meta gem.

GoG · 02/26/07, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

More likely it's that 4 MP/5 is just too much for the budget so they have to go one point lower. I doubt 3 MP/5 fills the entire budget.

That does seem like a possibility. I guess Blizzard failed to see the whole wisdom of their % to rating change. Perhaps they should have made a +mana regen rating that would only round once all the stats were added so it would be possible to itemize +3.2 mana per 5 essentially.

Boevis · 02/26/07, 2:59 PM

I really don't think gems follow the same budget rules as normal items. When stacked, every other combination of gems balances out to be equal (Red + Yellow = 2x RY) And this 3mp5 gem is the only exception.

I can't fathom why anyone would use it to begin with, for a healing class the +9 healing +2mp5 is superior, for a DPS class the +4 int +2mp5 is superior (hell, for most DPS classes, that 4 int provides +1mp5 anyway, so it's a win, win)

Dartan · 02/26/07, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by Boevis

I really don't think gems follow the same budget rules as normal items. When stacked, every other combination of gems balances out to be equal (Red + Yellow = 2x RY) And this 3mp5 gem is the only exception.

I can't fathom why anyone would use it to begin with, for a healing class the +9 healing +2mp5 is superior, for a DPS class the +4 int +2mp5 is superior (hell, for most DPS classes, that 4 int provides +1mp5 anyway, so it's a win, win)

4 int is only 1 mp5s over a 5 min fight. 9 healing affects all healing spells and the healing spells you do with the mana regained from using mana pots. Not saying that's the final word on how to socket your gear, but that's what others may be thinking.

Beliandra · 02/26/07, 5:16 PM

I'm sure it's just a rounding error, and the "+9 healing and 2 mana per 5" gem should really only have 1.5 mana/5, but they rounded it up.

Boevis · 02/26/07, 5:43 PM

Sorry, I was confusing Dreamstate (10% of int = mp5) with Lunar Guidance (25% of int = damage/healing), Mages, Priests, Shaman, and Paladins all have equivalent talent to Lunar Guidance, making 4 int a better choice than the extra 1mp5, but yes, that is just my opinion

BeeLz · 02/26/07, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

More likely it's that 4 MP/5 is just too much for the budget so they have to go one point lower. I doubt 3 MP/5 fills the entire budget.

well if 18healing = 9healing + 2mp5 than 18 healing = 4 mp5 , not 3

• Chicken · 02/26/07, 8:10 PM

Originally Posted by BeeLz

well if 18healing = 9healing + 2mp5 than 18 healing = 4 mp5 , not 3

Not necesarrily. If we assume Blizzard rounds up when it's larger than a half and down when it's less than a half, the 9 healing 2 mp5 gem could actually have 1.6 mp5; twice that would would be 3.2mp5. And one would end up getting rounded down, while the other gets rounded up.

kharen · 02/26/07, 10:36 PM

On a related note, has anyone worked out how much gems are budgetted as in ilvl calculations? I seem to recall reading that in level 70 blues they were worth 6 points of a stat, but I can't remember where i read that for the life of me, or find a quote to back it up.

mek · 02/27/07, 4:54 AM

Originally Posted by Chicken

Not necesarrily. If we assume Blizzard rounds up when it's larger than a half and down when it's less than a half, the 9 healing 2 mp5 gem could actually have 1.6 mp5; twice that would would be 3.2mp5. And one would end up getting rounded down, while the other gets rounded up.

Bingo. But not rounding everything in the same direction is a bad decision, as we can see some gems are artificially devalued while others become more appealing. Though this is unique to mp5, AFAIK, since each "point" of mp5 is worth much more than any other single stat.

Kerruul · 02/27/07, 9:59 AM

Actually the argument that 1xYellow + 1xRed = 2xOrange falls down in other examples. See for example:

Gleaming Dawnstone: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24050
Runed Living Ruby: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24030

The 2 together are +8 spell crit, +9 spell damage. However 2 of these:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24059

+8 spell crit and +10 spell damage. I don't buy the rounding argument, but I do buy into the item level/item budget argument.

Kink · 02/27/07, 10:41 AM

When it comes to working out an items iLvl, the sockets have a scaling worth depending on how good the other stats are. So sockets on a blue are worth less to the Ilvl than sockets on an epic lvl 70 item.

Which is pretty stupid and also why they are changing it so that a socket has the exact same worth on every armour piece. hopefully it will mean that the socketed T4 and T5 gear becomes more of an upgrade.

As far as iLvl on the actual gems are concerned, I don't see how it matters. The important factor is the iLvl value of the socket on the armour.

alienangel · 02/27/07, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by mek

Bingo. But not rounding everything in the same direction is a bad decision, as we can see some gems are artificially devalued while others become more appealing. Though this is unique to mp5, AFAIK, since each "point" of mp5 is worth much more than any other single stat.

I think there was a thread a few months back ("splitting the difference") suggesting that instead of rounding anything in these cases, Blizzard actually splits the difference. I.e. if an item gives you 2.5 mp5, then 50% of ticks from it will give you 2 mana, and 50% will give you 3 mana.