Retadin use in raids? - Page 56

Charsi · 08/15/07, 2:04 PM

Crusader Strike? Seal of Command?

hip · 08/15/07, 2:07 PM

:delete:

Elsydian · 08/15/07, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by Luxury

One thing about hit rating:

Apparently 48 hit rating plus the hit talent is enough to cap if you have 355 weapon skill, for both white hits and specials.

Thank you very much for reminding me of this! Would I be correct then that 104.28 hit rating is enough without Precision?

Nubs · 08/15/07, 3:36 PM

Originally Posted by Charsi

Crusader Strike? Seal of Command?

Considering the lack of an actual question yet you threw in some question marks. What is it that you are asking?

Edited to also say that with 104.2x hit rating you should be fine without precision.

Charsi · 08/15/07, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by Nubs

Edited to also say that with 104.2x hit rating you should be fine without precision.

Oddly enough this was my next question, thank you

Ailee · 08/15/07, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Nubs

Considering the lack of an actual question yet you threw in some question marks. What is it that you are asking?

Edited to also say that with 104.2x hit rating you should be fine without precision.

I believe his statement was asking if Crusader Strike and Seal of Command are affected by the WF change.

Sarutobi · 08/15/07, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ailee

I believe his statement was asking if Crusader Strike and Seal of Command are affected by the WF change.

Crusader strike will be affected since it's an instant attack. Seal of Command I'm unsure of (and was unaware it was able to proc WF previously (was it?)) since it's a proc and not an actual weapon swing.

Originally Posted by Nubs

Edited to also say that with 104.2x hit rating you should be fine without precision.

Unless something's changed recently that I'm unaware of, 104.28 hit rating + 355 weapon skill would only give you 7.31% hit, which would leave you short of the required 8.64 for 2-handed weapons. (Assuming a 3+ lvl or boss target)

Sapp · 08/15/07, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by Daenerys

Pardon me for not knowing much about Ret DPS, but did the WF nerf affect Ret potential at all? We've been kicking the idea of a Ret around for a while now, and I want to stay on top of this stuff for when it comes up in serious conversation again. Thanks!

Crusader Strike and Seal of Command couldn't proc windfury anyway. Seal of Command could proc OFF windfury swings and get the +AP bonus, but that's the other way around from the nerf and probably not affected.

The WF change does not affect us at all, not one iota.

Fiola · 08/15/07, 4:18 PM

Originally Posted by Nubs

Considering the lack of an actual question yet you threw in some question marks. What is it that you are asking?

Edited to also say that with 104.2x hit rating you should be fine without precision.

On the previous page:

Originally Posted by Handled

The biggest Nerf from Windfury that I can see is you can no longer force a Windfury proc by spamming an instant attack like hamstring or something to that effect. Since Paladins really don't have any instant attacks to force a Windfury proc I don't think it's going to effect their DPS at all.

On this page:

Originally Posted by Charsi

Crusader Strike? Seal of Command?

Someone else in this thread has stated before that CS/SoC doesn't proc Windfury. I don't have much Windfury experience (most of the guild shammies are pretty recent L70s, and are usually in other groups for raids), but I haven't seen evidence that CS/SoC can proc Windfury, either.

Cromfel · 08/15/07, 4:28 PM

Atleast from calculating WF propabilities from WWS logs it seems that CS / SoC never could proc WF (Supporting the past knowledge of WF not proccing from them).

Sarutobi · 08/15/07, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Cromfel

Atleast from calculating WF propabilities from WWS logs it seems that CS / SoC never could proc WF (Supporting the past knowledge of WF not proccing from them).

If CS could never proc WF previously (which was probably a bug since it was an instant weapon attack), then paladins will be completely unaffected by the change.

Elsydian · 08/15/07, 5:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sarutobi

Unless something's changed recently that I'm unaware of, 104.28 hit rating + 355 weapon skill would only give you 7.31% hit, which would leave you short of the required 8.64 for 2-handed weapons. (Assuming a 3+ lvl or boss target)

I was assuming 355 weapon skill vs 73 was good for 2% hit, but even wowwiki.com isn't solid on this info. Do you know what the current +hit value of 355 weapon skill vs lvl73 is?

Sapp · 08/15/07, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by Sarutobi

If CS could never proc WF previously (which was probably a bug since it was an instant weapon attack), then paladins will be completely unaffected by the change.

It was intentionally set not to at some point early on, when it was disallowed from proccing other instant attacks (like seal of command and various trinket and weapon procs)

Sapp · 08/15/07, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Elsydian

I was assuming 355 weapon skill vs 73 was good for 2% hit, but even wowwiki.com isn't solid on this info. Do you know what the current +hit value of 355 weapon skill vs lvl73 is?

each point of increase over the natural mark is worth +.2 hit/crit and -.2 dodge/block, and -.6 parry

so 5 weaponskill over (from racial bonus) is +1% crit +1% hit -1% dodge -1% block -3% parry

Jubjub · 08/15/07, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sapp

each point of increase over the natural mark is worth +.2 hit/crit and -.2 dodge/block, and -.6 parry

so 5 weaponskill over (from racial bonus) is +1% crit +1% hit -1% dodge -1% block -3% parry

Each point of weapon skill used to be .02 crit/dodge/parry/so on. It was like that for a long time and at some point they changed it. I'm not sure exactly when, but I wanna say around 3 months ago. Now it does .04%, they just doubled it.

5 skill used to be .1 crit, now its .2 crit. It's nowhere near 1%.

Sarutobi · 08/15/07, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sapp

each point of increase over the natural mark is worth +.2 hit/crit and -.2 dodge/block, and -.6 parry

so 5 weaponskill over (from racial bonus) is +1% crit +1% hit -1% dodge -1% block -3% parry

Each point of weapon skill is worth .1% hit. This has been confirmed (via testing) in multiple threads on the theorycrafting boards. For DPS purposes the dodge/parry numbers are irrelevant, but the dodge numbers I haven't seen any testing for, if you have a link it would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by Jubjub

Each point of weapon skill used to be .02 crit/dodge/parry/so on. It was like that for a long time and at some point they changed it. I'm not sure exactly when, but I wanna say around 3 months ago. Now it does .04%, they just doubled it.

5 skill used to be .1 crit, now its .2 crit. It's nowhere near 1%.

It's actually slightly more than that. In addition to the .04% it used to give you, it also gives you .1% per point (vs targets above your level). So 5 points is actually giving you .6% crit vs targets above your lvl.

Saabik · 08/15/07, 8:16 PM

Originally Posted by Handled

I'm currently using;

[Pillager's Gauntlets]

[Belt of Seething Fury]

My goal is to obtain;

2 X [Band of Devastation]

[Swiftsteel Bracers]

[Swiftsteel Shoulders]

[Torch of the Damned]

[Dragonspine Trophy]

I'm missing the 2nd ring and DS trophy. All of our rogues and hunters have the trophy, so I might get one soon. Ring should be this week as well. I can tell you from the rest of the gear haste is amazing. Hopefully the stat changes in 2.3 (and talents/skills) the devs will change all of our tiered gear from spelldamage to haste rating. This would make the sets great for PVE, which they are currently "decent".

flyingtoastr · 08/16/07, 2:26 AM

Are the changes from Blizzcon confirmed for patch 2.3? I was under the impression it was going to be longer than that for the buffs to go live.

On a side note, what kind of chestpiece should a new ret pally go for, the Tier 4 or Gladiator Season 2?

Also, if the mana cost is being increased in the patch for CS, leading people to simply downrank to Rank 1 SoC and ignore Judgement, would it be more useful to use [Libram of Zeal] for the extra spell damage or [Libram of Righteous Power] for the extra CS damage?

Warpony · 08/16/07, 3:25 AM

Flying: They've said its planned for 2.3. Remember, 2.2! is the patch we're getting next. So it's what, 1 1/2 (?) patchcycle away.

S2 BP vastly outdoes T4.
Not really counting gems (Since it's 2 red on both, 1 yel vs 1 blue would favor S2 in my opinion, but we'll let it slide) you get +7str, +30 stam, -6 int, +15 critrating, -7 spelldmg.

The second one i can't answer. As im both new as a Ret, and playing a BE, so i use SoB in raids. Mana isn't much of an issue for me so far (Depending on which rank consecrate i keep up)... If i downranked Consecrate i'm sure i could keep Judging and keep CS up.

General question: I've read references to a spreadsheet beeing thrown around, but has been unable to track this down. If this exists, could someone give a link?

Amera · 08/16/07, 3:58 AM

There's also the option of just using an Alc stone and chain mana potting to keep up a full DPS cycle if the mana cost increase is that significant. I was doing this before I had a second decent trinket - it's not enough to sustain full rank consecrate unless you are getting healed a ton, but it is a pretty significant amount.

Cromfel · 08/16/07, 7:59 AM

Am I really the only one liking the [Bindings of Lightning Reflexes]? For some reason I find them a lot more tempting than the plate version, due BLR having decent amount of agility to cover up the loss in strenght.

Dizglan · 08/16/07, 12:58 PM

I was just wondering, what kind of values do you lot use on Lootzor.com? And no, I didn't really look through the thread, just checked back a few pages. :p

Fiola · 08/16/07, 5:07 PM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

...

Also, if the mana cost is being increased in the patch for CS, leading people to simply downrank to Rank 1 SoC and ignore Judgement, would it be more useful to use [Libram of Zeal] for the extra spell damage or [Libram of Righteous Power] for the extra CS damage?

CS gets 40% of +dmg as bonus damage. 47 +holy * 40% ~= 18 damage.

If JotC is up, Zeal increases CS by 18 damage, as well as improving SoC/JoC/JoB/Consecrate and the damage of other paladins (such as a Prot tank).

Also, JotC's +holy doesn't seem to be affected by downranking penalties. (such as for R1 Consecrate)

Ayreon · 08/17/07, 11:59 AM

Correct me If I am wrong but Crusader strike deals physical damage and should not be affected by Libram of Zeal...

Fiola · 08/17/07, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Ayreon

Correct me If I am wrong but Crusader strike deals physical damage and should not be affected by Libram of Zeal...

Crusader Strike - Spells - World of Warcraft

Crusader Strike
8% of base Mana 5 yd range
Instant cast 10 sec cooldown
Requires Melee Weapon
An instant strike that causes weapon damage plus 40% of your Holy spell damage and refreshes all Judgements on the target.

JotC adds X +holy damage to attacks made against the debuffed target. CS is an attack. CS benefits from +holy. CS damage increases against JotC'd targets. Libram of Zeal increases the +holy of JotC. CS damage is increased by Zeal when JotC is up.

(If you don't believe me, you could test it yourself. Find your average CS w/o JotC, and compare it to average CS w/ JotC)