duostrike

Boots of Fortelling:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28517

I added 18 damage for the 2 gem slots. It comes out to:
20.37 ilvl under budget even with the extra damage tacked on.

 

Nezralix

Since I often feel like Blizzard screwed something up with the ilvl calcs, I plugged every item from Shattered Halls (minus ranged slots, also excluding socketed items) into that calc, adjusting stamina down by a factor of 1.5. Some of these seem pretty accurate, but others are just way off:

Bands of Nethekurse: (123.5 / 112) -> possibly high due to spell penetration
Belt of Flowing Thought: (112.5 / 115)
Blood Guard's Necklace of Ferocity: (96.9 / 115)
Cloak of Malice: (112.4 / 112)
Demonblood Eviscerator: (115.2 / 115)
Firemaul of Destruction: (120.4 / 112) -> substituted resilience rating for agility
Gauntlets of the Righteous: (107 / 115)
Gloves of Oblivion: (116.1 / 115)
Greathelm of the Unbreakable: ( 102 / 112)
Hallowed Handwraps: (116 / 115)
Hortus' Seal of Brilliance: (114.8 / 115)
Jeweled Boots of Sanctification: (112.21 / 112)
Justice Bearer's Pauldrons: (117.52 / 112)
Lightsworn Hammer (108.31 / 115) -> Assumed that the +healing counts for zero
Nimble-foot Treads: (100.91 / 115)
Pantaloons of Flaming Wrath: (89.7 / 115)
Runesong Dagger: (81.3 / 112)
Telaari Hunting Girdle: (115.16 / 115)
World's End Bracers: (115.2 / 115)

Bands of Rarefied magic: (100.2 / 100)
Forestheart Bracers ( 105.9 / 100) -> hybrid itemization taken into account?

I also went through the Bold set (the one of the most interest to me currently), and added appropriate blue gems (+12, +6sta/+4agi, +6sta/+4def) in the various sockets so that I would get the socket bonus. Here's what I got:

Breastplate of the Bold: 112.3
Gauntlets of the Bold: 109.8
Legplates of the Bold: 102.9
Shoulderguards of the Bold: 107.0
Warhelm of the Bold: 103.0 (not sure about meta socket formula; just included +18 stam)

This somewhat confirms my suspicion that this set is garbage. I don't know how they ended up with this stuff.

Also looking at the updated Bracers of the Green Fortress... the new ones look like they have an estimated ilvl of 81.7. Which you may notice falls somewhat short of the listed ilvl of 105. Since they presumably *just* looked at these items, my only conclusion is that either this calculator is somehow fundamentally wrong since TBC, or some Blizzard item designers are just unaware that stamina has been devalued.

Bracers of the Green Fortress (ilvl 105):

10 str
39 sta
17 defense rating

Dreadnaught Bracers (ilvl 88):

14 str
28 sta (would be 42 with the new stamina formula)
7 defense rating (would be similarly updated, although I'm not sure by how much; presumably by about 60% if the combat rating conversions can be compared)

 

◊ Praetorian

If I were "The Item Guy" one of the first things I'd do would be to have someone write a simple script to run through the database and identify outliers that are overbudget/underbudget. It's kind of mind-boggling that this apparently isn't done, leading to items that have +42 stam instead of +24 stam, items that omit some stats entirely and are thus dozens of levels underbudget, etc. It's bizarre.

 

Haldane

I don't think it's that bizarre if you assume that the launch of TBC was rushed and they half-assed a lot of stuff.

Now, the "corrections" they're making to a lot of items, that's bizarre.

 

◊ Drauk

Oh better yet, write a custom application for item designing with build-in ilvl checks. It only take a couple days max to write such app.

Fun is for casuals

 

Agrimat

It's possible that with TBC they intentionally designed items that vary from the formulas based on item level. Like, they may have made "bad" level 115 items and "good" level 115 items to make you happier when you get one of the good ones that's appropriate for your class. It'd be the same theory behind intentionally creating sucky rares in Magic: the Gathering.

Of course, the current large variety of classes and specs means that the slot machine will come up 0 for your group a lot of the time anyway, so I'm hoping they didn't do that.

Anyway, I'm entirely speculating. I'm not happy about itemization either, and stuff like this gets missed or messed up in game design all the time, but it's possible that it's intentional.

 

Kazanir

Seeing as how I wrote a php script to do this in under an hour from a webform...yeah shouldn't be too hard. I've got to figure out one error and then I'll post the link. Also, how *precisely* do sockets work? Do we know? If someone tells me I'll add them into my formula.

 

alienangel

What would be the point of an itemization regulation formula if you didn't stick to it? I think they either just screwed up, or abandoned iLvl completely (seems unlikely).

Then again the calculator we're using could be wrong, has anyone actually checked Subversion is implemented correctly (well, as correctly as we estimate the formula).

My own foray into the matter was to note that while the hunter boots off Chess are apparently 10 levels over budget in their current [aweseome, actually an upgrade from Tier 3], the new version on test is about 25 levels below budget.

 

◊ Bryne

You're doing it wrong, basically. If you got an ilvl of 81 after plugging the new BotGF into that calculator, you a) didn't add the armor stat, and b) didn't devalue the Stamina stat correctly. When I put the correct stats in, I'm actually getting the bracers at 8 ilvls over expected, which is obviously wrong as well. In addition to the Stam changes, that calculator doesn't take whatever the new armor budgeting is into account either, unless I'm totally off-base as well.

 

mek

Thanks in advance for doing this, make sure it's ultra-low bandwidth now.

Itemization is getting worse somehow, not better. Oi vay. Check out:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=30054 lvl 115 epic vs.
http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=28186 lvl 115 blue...

 

Keline

What's even worse, many of these items were already reported in the beta (I know I reported the Junior Tech bracer) yet this wasn't fixed at release
If they wanted to add bad items, they could just create items where not all stats would be useful. like stamina + mp5 plate armor.. oh wait they're already doing that =(

 

• Tharas

I asked in another thread (re: Itemization Holes in TBC), if someone knew of an -addon- that could do this in the tooltips for items. I actually think that would very nice. (I know -zero- about LUA and add-on development though, so I'm at the mercy of others)

 

Nilez

Rating Buster has a Simple Itemlvl: at the bottom of tooltips.

http://wow-en.curse-gaming.com/files...rating-buster/

 

◊ Bryne

I think hat's just the expected (listed) ilvl obtained from the server, not one actually calculated from the item's stats.

 

Skiace

that was made by Antiarc, who does read and post here on occasion.

 

Nezralix

Nope, pretty sure I did it right. It has the default armor value, so no need to take that into account. I divided 39 by 1.5 to get the expected stat cost prior to the stamina devaluation, then I added 7 defense and 10 strength.

I used this calculator: http://subcreation.net/itemlevel/

My results match the ones from this calculator, which does take the stamina formula into account: http://wow.tachyonsix.com/itemMaker/?

 

◊ Bryne

Yeah, you're right, I wasn't aware Antiarc's calculator took the new stamina values into account even though it has nothing to do with ratings. It's also way off on the new default armor values.

 

• Tharas

It is. (I have an incredible sense of deja vu, since this was exactly what happened in the other thread...)

 

Nezralix

Which thread?

 

Keline

So how much are sockets worth on the item value now?

 

Kazanir

I believe that each socket is as if one added a new "sixth stat" to the item, such that they add 8^1.5 to the sum of stat weights inside the ( + + + ) ^ 2/3. However I have never definitively read that, so I'm not sure and I'm looking for confirmation before I link my calculator.

 

Uthalin

If you wanted to do something like this the fastest way would probably to use Nurfed's DKP addon as a base. They already wrote all the code to get the stats from the tooltip and put something back on it, you would just have to modify it to do iLvl calculations instead of what they use now.

 

Kazanir

Ok. Here's what I did:

I lifted a bunch of HTML code from Subcreation and redesigned their form to make more sense and be generally better arranged. I added slots for extra armor, sockets, meta socket yes/no, and resilience. The form submits to a PHP script I wrote that takes the entire batch and processes the item level calculation based on stats, item slot, and item quality, spitting out a number in a small popup with you hit the Calculate button. It's not fancy, but it appears function and accurate. It's very plain because I hope that EJ doesn't destroy my bandwidth when I link it. <_<

It includes:

1) The new value for Stamina
2) Combat ratings instead of old %'s
3) Addition of sockets and meta sockets

I have assumed for sockets that each socket is worth 8 points of an invisible stat with the standard weight of 1. Thus each socket will add 8^1.5 to the interior of the ItemValue calculation, before the cube root square is performed on the whole thing. A meta socket I have taken to be twice the value of a normal socket, since the raw stats are generally 1.5x a normal blue gem, plus the special ability.

It appears that Blizzard has valued sockets higher in epic items somewhat, but that this will be changing. Due to this, epic items with sockets tend to come out 2-3 item levels lower than they would if I had the right values for sockets. Once the patch is done we should be able to analyze more accurately just how much a socket is worth across the board.

The calculator cannot yet do sacrificed DPS. Sorry, working on it when I get a chance.

The link is http://www.ragnarokproject.org/vk/itemlevel.html. Please just drop feedback on this thread or in a PM to me on these boards.

 

Nezralix

Although that does look useful, I get slightly different results on http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27977 when I plug it into that calc vs. http://wow.tachyonsix.com/itemMaker/index.php , which supposedly takes the new stamina value into account.

 

Kazanir

How does one handle plugging Defense rating into Tachyonsix? Is it updated for the rating system?