WoW Item Calculator? - Page 3

Nezralix · 03/01/07, 2:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kazanir

How does one handle plugging Defense rating into Tachyonsix? Is it updated for the rating system?

I don't believe so, I had to do the conversion.

Nezralix · 03/01/07, 2:42 PM

I considered the possibility that rating isn't converting exactly as you might expect to item budget, i.e. that a baseline level 60 blue item (I guess ilvl 60 or so?) with its entire budget devoted to crit, vs. a level 70 item of the same nature, wouldn't necessarily equate to the same item budget. For example, that 1% crit at level 60 might work out to 0.8% crit at level 70, although the impression I got from the rating system was that this would be the case.

But I tried looking at an item like the Rubium War-Girdle http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28375, and I found that I needed something like 1.65% crit (which would be 36 crit rating) to get it to even out to an ilvl 115. No matter how you work it out, I can't imagine crit actually getting *cheaper* on blue items, because that's the kind of situation that Blizzard wanted to avoid.

So basically, I don't even see how you can reverse engineer the rating conversion with items as unpredictable as they seem to be at the moment. How can you figure out which items are correctly budgeted and which are just broken?

EDIT: I guess I answered my own question. If crit rating is equal to any other stat like strength, then a standard pre-TBC blue (ilvl 65) with its stats totally devoted to crit would get about 2.71% crit, whereas a post-TBC (ilvl 115) would get 3.12%. So they're approximately equal. Although you could possibly deflate the value in the calculator a very small bit if you had to enter a fixed value and not a rating.

Kody · 03/02/07, 3:32 PM

Cool, thanks Kanazir. Going to play around with this a bit to see what all Karazhan(and higher) stuff is underbudget for me. So far it looks like the tier 4 legs are a bit over 3 levels underbudget.

Moving some stats around slightly - same INT/STA, adding 25 spell crit, reducing mp5 to 5, healing to 73) - makes them a direct upgrade over http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27748 and places them damn near spot-on for the ilvl 105 that they are.

Time to check out other stuff! Thanks again for an updated calc with the TBC changes.

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 4:45 PM

No problem. A little bit of HTML theft combined with some PHP goes a long way I guess. Anyone who finds any issues please drop me a PM or just post here. Most especially if you come up with an ilvl with my calc that differs from doing the formula manually, or if you know something more about sockets than my assumptions, please let me know asap.

Playered · 03/02/07, 5:06 PM

Do not sets suffer a tiny penalty in ilvl allocation due to the set bonus they have?

Else my T5 healing gloves are missing the 8MP5 and +3 Healing in order to make them actually an ilvl 120 item, currently they are the same ilvl as T4 is ment to be :|

Currently T4 are ilvl 96, T5 ilvl 105 - so it seems 10% of their actual ilvl is wasted on either thin air or set bonus.

Cesar2000 · 03/02/07, 5:13 PM

I dont believe set bonuses (and socket bonuses) 'cost' any points.

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 5:26 PM

Originally Posted by Cesar2000

I dont believe set bonuses (and socket bonuses) 'cost' any points.

That has been the conclusion that I have always read. If your set gloves are socketed then they will probably undershoot the true ilvl by a couple levels, but sure not by 9.

GoG · 03/02/07, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

If I were "The Item Guy" one of the first things I'd do would be to have someone write a simple script to run through the database and identify outliers that are overbudget/underbudget. It's kind of mind-boggling that this apparently isn't done, leading to items that have +42 stam instead of +24 stam, items that omit some stats entirely and are thus dozens of levels underbudget, etc. It's bizarre.

Being in the software industry for the last decade, I'll tell you there are some crazy things that make it through the cracks. If I had to guess, I'd say they do have item creating scripts, how could they not, but I bet they don't have regression testing scripts. That is, automated tests that run every time they make a change just to see if they messed something old up. So what's the relevance here? It's possible they created the T4 sets before they changed the stamina budget so they could advertise the T4 sets months before TBC was finished in design/developement. They change the stam budget then they need to go back and manually correct everything in the game already. Blizzard seems notorious for this sort of problem.

Gatzu · 03/02/07, 6:05 PM

This comparison always disgusts me

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28610
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28746

• alcaras · 03/02/07, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Alcaras's calculator hasn't been updated in 10 months, so yeah. :P

I finally took it down :P

Playered · 03/02/07, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kazanir

That has been the conclusion that I have always read. If your set gloves are socketed then they will probably undershoot the true ilvl by a couple levels, but sure not by 9.

Sadly they aren't >_>

But good to know on bonuses actually being a pure bonus without cost!

• alcaras · 03/02/07, 6:21 PM

Originally Posted by Kazanir

Ok. Here's what I did:

I lifted a bunch of HTML code from Subcreation and resigned their form to make more sense and be generally better arranged. I added slots for extra armor, sockets, meta socket yes/no, and resilience. The form submits to a PHP script I wrote that takes the entire batch and processes the item level calculation based on stats, item slot, and item quality, spitting out a number in a small popup with you hit the Calculate button. It's not fancy, but it appears function and accurate. It's very plain because I hope that EJ doesn't destroy my bandwidth when I link it. <_<

It includes:

1) The new value for Stamina
2) Combat ratings instead of old %'s
3) Addition of sockets and meta sockets

I have assumed for sockets that each socket is worth 8 points of an invisible stat with the standard weight of 1. Thus each socket will add 8^1.5 to the interior of the ItemValue calculation, before the cube root square is performed on the whole thing. A meta socket I have taken to be twice the value of a normal socket, since the raw stats are generally 1.5x a normal blue gem, plus the special ability.

It appears that Blizzard has valued sockets higher in epic items somewhat, but that this will be changing. Due to this, epic items with sockets tend to come out 2-3 item levels lower than they would if I had the right values for sockets. Once the patch is done we should be able to analyze more accurately just how much a socket is worth across the board.

The calculator cannot yet do sacrificed DPS. Sorry, working on it when I get a chance.

The link is http://www.ragnarokproject.org/vk/itemlevel.html. Please just drop feedback on this thread or in a PM to me on these boards.

Thanks Kaz! I took down my old calculator and put up a link to yours instead

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 7:46 PM

Why is it that I only notice I spelled "redesigned" as "resigned" 2 days later...

Edit: And thanks for letting me lift your HTML design!

Rule · 03/02/07, 7:54 PM

Wait, am I doing this right? I just plugged in the stats for the gladiator plate chest (warrior), which is ilvl 115, and it said its calculated ilvl is 90? Is there some calculation that needs to be done to the number this thing outputs, is gladiator's way WAY underbudget, or what's up here?

I just plugged in 3 sockets, 46 sta, 17 str, 25 crit, and 25 resil and it says that comes out to 90.

Playered · 03/02/07, 7:57 PM

Perhaps your missing bonus armor?

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 8:11 PM

Originally Posted by Rule

Wait, am I doing this right? I just plugged in the stats for the gladiator plate chest (warrior), which is ilvl 115, and it said its calculated ilvl is 90? Is there some calculation that needs to be done to the number this thing outputs, is gladiator's way WAY underbudget, or what's up here?

I just plugged in 3 sockets, 46 sta, 17 str, 25 crit, and 25 resil and it says that comes out to 90.

Yes, I would bet there is significant bonus armor on the gladiator's plate that is tacked on. Let me take a look.

Also, almost every time I use this it outputs ilevels that are far lower than the intended, and so I'm like "WTF did I program this wrong." So then I run the formula through manually on my calculator and get the same answer, and then I double check the calculation on well-known items like Tier 3 and it works out fine (if I remember to change the Stam values appropriately.) So the calculator is right, but something is pretty funky with either a new TBC formula or with Blizz's itemization team. Caveat emptor.

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 8:24 PM

The Gladiator's Plate Chestpiece appears to have 180 bonus armor beyond a "normal" ilevel 115 epic plate chest, but...that still only gives us an ilvl of 97.3. Even if we assume that my socket formula undershoots the real ilvl by a ways, that is a lot of missing item levels.

HOWEVER! Now let's assume that this plate chest was designed with the old values for Stamina! That means we plug in 1.5x the current stam value to my calculator, 69 stam (because 46 stam then cost as much as 69 does under the new formula). Plugging in 69 stam to my calculator gives us an ilvl of 111.3. Assuming again that my formula undershoots the ilvl of epic items with sockets (because I assume a static cost for sockets) then we are about at 115 becaues the chest has 3 sockets.

So, we see that even on the Gladiator gear, the new stamina formula has been ignored.

Rule · 03/02/07, 8:31 PM

I don't think there's bonus armor on it, but I guess there could be. It has the same armor as the paladin gladiator bp(s), and only slightly less than the destroyer (t5) bp, which is only a bit higher at ilvl 120. Also, why the hell would they put bonus armor on the pvp set? I mean they might, but it'd be pretty asinine. Now a priest pvp set I could see there being bonus armor on

Ok, another one, the paladin ret type gladiator bp, 27str, 42sta, 19int, 28melee crit, 12+dmg comes out to ilvl 95.9? WTF?

I'm highly inclined to believe your calculator is correct and blizz royally fucked up here, since going from the warrior blue grand marshal bp, an ilvl 115 blue -which should be equal to an ilvl 90 epic- to the gladiator bp, an ilvl 115 epic, you gain +2sta +5str +1crit rating and +6resil going up what amounts to 25(!) ilvls. Something smells good in Stinksville here.

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rule

I don't think there's bonus armor on it, but I guess there could be. It has the same armor as the paladin gladiator bp(s), and only slightly less than the destroyer (t5) bp, which is only a bit higher at ilvl 120. Also, why the hell would they put bonus armor on the pvp set? I mean they might, but it'd be pretty asinine. Now a priest pvp set I could see there being bonus armor on

It does definitely have 180 bonus armor on it (just trust me that I ran the numbers), but that's quite normal for both plate of all kinds and also for PvP gear of all kinds, which are classically high armor to make one more survivable.

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by Rule

I don't think there's bonus armor on it, but I guess there could be. It has the same armor as the paladin gladiator bp(s), and only slightly less than the destroyer (t5) bp, which is only a bit higher at ilvl 120. Also, why the hell would they put bonus armor on the pvp set? I mean they might, but it'd be pretty asinine. Now a priest pvp set I could see there being bonus armor on

Ok, another one, the paladin ret type gladiator bp, 27str, 42sta, 19int, 28melee crit, 12+dmg comes out to ilvl 95.9? WTF?

I'm highly inclined to believe your calculator is correct and blizz royally fucked up here, since going from the warrior blue grand marshal bp, an ilvl 115 blue -which should be equal to an ilvl 90 epic- to the gladiator bp, an ilvl 115 epic, you gain +2sta +5str +1crit rating and +6resil going up what amounts to 25(!) ilvls. Something smells good in Stinksville here.

This chest suffers from the exact same things: Add in 180 bonus armor and calculate Stamina as if there was 1.5x of it there (i.e. at the vanilla WoW cost) and you get an ilvl of 115.4.

Rule · 03/02/07, 8:42 PM

I believe you

But that also means that all the pally glad set bp's have it as well. While I can see it being useful for them, especially their holy gear, where being able to take a beating better is great, for warriors, it's not very good at all. The points for that armor would be much better spent on more sta or resil if they want to further boost survivability on the sets, since physical dmg isn't what's typically killing a warrior in pvp.

Thanks for this calculator tho

It's extremely useful to have these kinds of tools to call blizz on their (even more grievous than I had thought) errors.

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 8:44 PM

Ya, it's getting kind of ridiculous the more I examine things. I hate having to doubt the veracity of my code every time just because Blizzard apparently screwed up or changed many things...

Div · 03/02/07, 8:47 PM

The calculator is also showing ilevel 94 for Chestguard of Exile and 98 for Boots of the Incorrupt, but 88.4 for Robes of the Incarnate, and also several (more than 10) less ilevels for the two other socketed priest tier 4 healing items, so there might be something wrong with the socket calculation. Or they might just be that much underbudgeted.

Nezralix · 03/02/07, 9:26 PM

I'm fairly certain the socket calculation is incorrect, but I don't think anyone really knows what the socket calcuation is. I've looked at some items where I just stacked +10 (epic level) gems onto the largest stat (i.e. added 20 onto STR if that's the largest stat) on the item and *still* not gotten the expected item level.

Kazanir · 03/02/07, 9:38 PM

Originally Posted by Nezralix

I'm fairly certain the socket calculation is incorrect, but I don't think anyone really knows what the socket calcuation is. I've looked at some items where I just stacked +10 (epic level) gems onto the largest stat (i.e. added 20 onto STR if that's the largest stat) on the item and *still* not gotten the expected item level.

Yeah, no one is really sure on the sockets, especially since apparently Blizzard did funky things by making them cost more on epics than they do on blues (wtf?) and now they are changing it again. Meanwhile, I would check the stam thing on all those items you mentioned and see what the item comes out as by imitating the "old" stam value.