Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03/02/07, 9:58 PM   #16
Jayde
Great Tiger
 
Jayde's Avatar
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Originally Posted by Spades View Post
Here's a question. Since heroics are so variable in the nature of the challenges they present, is it possible that hybrids are more effective in this setting than core classes because of their versatility?
That's probably a bit situational. Good example would be Slave Pens... I'd kinda prefer to have a main healer that could actually remove Quagmirran's poison rather than one who couldn't. I found this boss substantially easier with a Druid healer compared to a Priest.

Other places, that isn't always the case. Really depends on which parts of their versatility you need.

I must admit that I really do love a Shaman main healer that can pop Heroism.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 10:07 PM   #17
Miaxi
Don Flamenco
 
Miaxi's Avatar
 
Troll Shaman
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Jayde View Post
That's probably a bit situational. Good example would be Slave Pens... I'd kinda prefer to have a main healer that could actually remove Quagmirran's poison rather than one who couldn't. I found this boss substantially easier with a Druid healer compared to a Priest.

Other places, that isn't always the case. Really depends on which parts of their versatility you need.

I must admit that I really do love a Shaman main healer that can pop Heroism.
Or you could bring a hybrid in DPS role that removes poison, buffs the group, recovers wipes and pops heroism.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 10:15 PM   #18
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
dr_AllCOM3's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Try getting a group as a DPS Warrior... at least there aren't that many Warriors.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 10:21 PM   #19
Khlysti
Ithyphallic
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Silvermoon (EU)
I don't know how much this contributes as it involves a respec but...

I've both been top dps and main healer in different heroic runs (as enhance or resto), normally I am enhance and on certain pulls I will heal, as its needed. Whats really needed in most heroics is somone who can heal, and can dps depending on what you face.

Changing role based on the pull is what makes hybrids so damn good in heroics, and if you aren't doing it you are failing your group.

As far as druids etc MTing heroics goes, I do most with a warrior, but I've had a feral MT kara and heroics when needed with no problems at all, and I'm sure a properly geared paladin could have done it all.

Great Britain Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 10:36 PM   #20
Symbul
This could be anything
 
Symbul.6982
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account (EU)
I've only done Blood Furnace but my guild has had success running Heroics with complete hybrid setups.

We did BF with Paladin (holy/prot, tanking), Paladin (Holy/Prot, healing), Ele Shaman, Resto Shaman and Moonkin. The paladin was dicey tanking even one of the normal melee mobs (the ones hitting harder than Curator) but our entire stratbook was mostly just kite and nuke to death. Frost shocks and Earthbind Totems. We got Broggok in a few tries. The serious challenge after that were the ridiculous Felguard Annihilators uppercutting+swinging for 12-13k total. Frost Shocked and Cycloned them down, wiped a couple of times. Fortunately you can skip the last pack with Warlock (the one on the left as you go down the ramp). But don't tell Blizzard. All the bosses were insanely easy once pulled, but that has nothing to do with group setup. My overall impression is that the Heroics aren't really balanced. It's all about how good your group is at ignoring the stupidly hard hitting mobs' melee damage and getting to the bosses without having to go out and repair (we did). It doesn't help that the mobs routinely do the "store attacks" thing while they're unengaged that the Drakes in BWL tended to do a lot (though it's not unique to them by any means) and when they reach a target they swing 3+ times at once. It was all very silly, but decent fun for the first time. Definitely did not feel like going back to Furnace afterwards though.

Iceland Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 10:47 PM   #21
Ashiya
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Aerie Peak (EU)
Originally Posted by Jayde View Post
That's probably a bit situational. Good example would be Slave Pens... I'd kinda prefer to have a main healer that could actually remove Quagmirran's poison rather than one who couldn't. I found this boss substantially easier with a Druid healer compared to a Priest.

Other places, that isn't always the case. Really depends on which parts of their versatility you need.

I must admit that I really do love a Shaman main healer that can pop Heroism.
Hey Jayde

Anyway, I'd agree to a certain point that Hybrids have an edge over the "pure-one-way-classes". I did a few Heroics as Enh Spec and I loved it. Bring both sets of gear, switch accordingly. Things go wrong? Pop in a few heals. Bring utility with you, that's what being a hybrid is about and it's awesome.

Our usual setup for Heroics is filled with Hybrids, come to think of it.

Feral Druid
Resto Shaman
Shadowpriest
Random CC class
Random CC class

Had no extreme issues with most instances, however stuff like Shattered Halls is quite tough, ofcourse. But doubt that's due to the groupsetup.

However, think out of the box while doing heroics. It'll save you time
We've done heroics with such rediculous group setups, but with improvisation you can do a lot. We cleared Shadow Lab a while back with:

Enhancement Shaman
MM Hunter
Holy Paladin
DD Warrior
Prot Warrior

Needless to say, it was quite the cracker. The Blackheart room was just really hard, until we used our head -> Hunter pulls 3/6 mobs to him with Multishot and kites them to the entrance. The 4 of us deals with the 3 others. Hunter reaches the instance portal, feign.

Repeat. Success.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 11:30 PM   #22
goss
King Hippo
 
goss's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Bleeding Hollow
Have done Heroic Underbog with resto druid mainhealer with myself tanking a number of times. Nothing strikes me as particularly unusual about this. The bog lords before Black Stalker are nontrivial, but yeah.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 11:37 PM   #23
Spades
Piston Honda
 
Spades's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Shattered Hand
Goss, if you wouldn't mind, could you give me a little bit more detail of those runs? Usual group composition, gear used by you and the druid, etc. Thanks.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 12:03 AM   #24
• Bad Luck
ffffff
 
Bad Luck's Avatar
 
Orc Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
I loathe Gnome Rogues. But your avatar changes my mind.

I can't say I main healed a Heroic. But I did help heal our first venture into Heroic Slave Pens with a Feral build, and a Shadow Priest helping me. Our tank was Arms too so it was a fun little challenge. Mostly resulting in pro Hunter and Warlock kiting.

I have a full healing spec now, I should give a Heroic a try. The lack of rez worries me, I would have to have a Shadow Priest or a Enhancement Shaman backing me up. Or yeah, some form of Paladin.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 12:07 AM   #25
Whitemane
King Hippo
 
Orc Hunter
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Originally Posted by Bad Luck View Post
I loathe Gnome Rogues. But your avatar changes my mind.

I can't say I main healed a Heroic. But I did help heal our first venture into Heroic Slave Pens with a Feral build, and a Shadow Priest helping me. Our tank was Arms too so it was a fun little challenge. Mostly resulting in pro Hunter and Warlock kiting.

I have a full healing spec now, I should give a Heroic a try. The lack of rez worries me, I would have to have a Shadow Priest or a Enhancement Shaman backing me up. Or yeah, some form of Paladin.
Completely off-topic but whenever it's brought up, I feel the need to shake my fist at the man ... I really never got why druids a normal rez, it's just retarded and doesn't do anything but make druids second rate healers in 5 man instances.

/offtopic

Edit:

I've tanked plenty of heroics as a feral spec and I've done fine. I've co-healed some and that went just fine as well. Since I haven't been restoration specced or main healed a heroic yet I can't give you any insight to your questions. A resto druid will have big problems in instances where there's a lot of AoE / splash damage, that's the breaker for druids I've found. It is possible to overcome it with experience -> planning, but it takes a great restoration druid to pull off.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 1:02 AM   #26
Crossbones
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shattered Hand
I've solo healed plenty of heroics as a paladin. I just finished a group with a fury war tanking, me healing, and an elemental shaman dps'ing. The other two were a mage and rogue and thats the issue -- hybrids can't CC well at all and CC is integral to heroics.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 1:10 AM   #27
Vhex
Don Flamenco
 
Vhex's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Black Dragonflight
The biggest difference I've noticed between paladin and warrior/druid tanks is the lack of demo shout/roar which has been pretty huge. Dealable, but huge. Also, heavy CC groups can be a pain since the paladin has to keep moving the mobs around to avoid consecrate breaking sheep/trap.

The Inciter in SL is pretty harsh on paladin tanks as well. Drains pretty much all mana and seriously hampers agro gain after every charm especially since he may very well have blow holy shock/judgement/etc... right before charm breaks so you can't get agro back quite so easily. Intercept/feral charge are very nice for that fight.

I just wish they would get rid of the "no avoidance when casting" rule. Having your dodge/block/parry artificially set to 0 kinda defeats one of the few advantages of having a paladin tank. "Okay to offset the lack of demo shout, a couple thousand hp and no real 'oh shit' tools....you can heal yourself! But when healing yourself, every attack will land. enjoy!"

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 1:22 AM   #28
mek
Don Flamenco
 
mek's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Tichondrius
I agree with the healer+hybrid sentiment in this thread; the trend of taking two pure healers just seems completely suboptimal, any pull or boss you need two healers for, your feral or enhance or shadow priest can just healbot for.

Earthbind totem is totally underrated in heroics, too. The power of kiting can completely trivialize a lot of stuff, in Slave Pens we'd have a bad pull where the tank died, but the rest of us would survive with heavy kiting.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 1:22 AM   #29
Mencius
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dunemaul
Tell your friend he's an idiot... cause I just completed a heroic shatter halls with one of my best mates tanking... Conners, pally superstar and yours truely healing. We had a mage, lock, and a rogue helping out.

Peace

Edit: Betcha 5 bucks that 5 druids could pretty much do anything. Just my humble opinion.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 1:35 AM   #30
Spades
Piston Honda
 
Spades's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Shattered Hand
I bet five paladins could do anything, too. It would just be slow.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why the Hybrid Hate? Leil The Dung Heap 1 03/05/07 2:22 PM
Hybrid specs for hybrid classes spiderella Public Discussion 139 02/01/07 6:17 PM