RealID soon to apply to all forum posts, other upcoming official forum improvements - Page 12

Mysterymask · 07/07/10, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Entropie

By the analogies in this thread, a real life recruitment officer would be under 24/7 surveillance to function. Yes, people who fire employees get shit sometimes, but they are hardly in need of police protection to live.

That is because the risk of attacking a company is FAR greater then attacking a GM of a World of Warcraft guild.

Major coorporations have security around just for this purpose even minor ones have some kind of security. If Mcdonalds (for example) denies your application trying to harass management is going to get you put down by a team of HIGHLY paid lawyers and whatnot and they more then likely WILL find you and call the police on you and with the quickness.

A guild or some random person on the forums though more then likely does not have these kinds of protections and a few might actually be too scared to report it in fear that someone might try to go and hurt them or their family. I believe that 70% of harassment crimes go unreported and this is just asking to increase this number.

Entropie · 07/07/10, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Shadout

Entropie, you might very likely be right that if people weren't anonymous on the internet, normal behavior would prevail over time.
However, that is not what Blizzard is enforcing. They are enforcing real names in a micro-cosmos on the internet, hardly enough to adjust human behavior in any significant way, as long as the other 99,999% of internet usage is still anonymous.
The moronic people out there can make a new forum where they play around anonymously harassing others (like the totally awesome and scary blog at WoW Riot).

And I do not condone what Blizzard is doing. Blizzard cannot change the whole internet.

I'm sorry, I replied in here because I found some analogies outrageous and hoped for more on this forum. But you are all right here, the internet rains down upon me and I've become the defender of Blizzard. I pass for that.

Cireena · 07/07/10, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Entropie

And I do not condone what Blizzard is doing. Blizzard cannot change the whole internet.

I'm sorry, I replied in here because I found some analogies outrageous and hoped for more on this forum. But you are all right here, the internet rains down upon me and I've become the defender of Blizzard. I pass for that.

The problem is you are trying to use logic to control an illogical situation. In answer to some of your statements, nop these things do not happen often in the private sector or most of our personal life. The issue is not that it will happen all the time. the issue is that is CAN happen, it DOES happen in real life as well. You do not need to see 100's of cases of harrasment or assault to see a problem, you need just need to see an increase from a needless removal of privacy.

Tyvi · 07/07/10, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by alienangel

On that note, I wonder if it's legal (to the country you live in, not to Blizzard) to deny someone entry into your guild based on the ethnicity/race of their name.

I doubt it is since there are alot of National guilds on EU servers like a guild just for Swedish people etc. But even if it was, you could decline an app with the flimsy reason of "sorry, full on class X".

Mman · 07/07/10, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Entropie

First of all, posting on those forums is the same as telling your name in that bar, and it is your own choice to link your character name to it.

But they are not the same choice. Identifying myself in a bar is to a single person, and perhaps anybody in ear shot. But if I post on those forums I am now giving means to anybody who has my in game name to find my real name and anybody who has my real name to find my in game information (or just the fact that I play WoW). Not to mention just random people who come across the thread.

Exemplar · 07/07/10, 12:00 PM

Entropie - all hyperbole aside and I know you're playing Devil's advocate, not actively defending Blizzard.

Current system - toon names on forums. Chance of some psychotic somewhere taking action is ridiculously low. Only by linking your toon name somehow to your real life (via other sources, such as other forums/social media) could you grant a foothold into your life. That would be a personal mistake, not something selected by Blizard.

New system - foothold granted if you post on forums.

You can avoid forums, just like you avoid posting personal information that would somehow link you the person to your in-game account. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned, this is detrimental for those needing technical support or other legitimate help.

Cost: risk (possibly infinitesimal) to your identity.
Benefit: chance there may be less trolls.

If even only one person who plays WoW ever has real life problems because of the realID system, is it worth it? Is there value added?

Oh - and from the other side, one of our guild members' account information lists first name as a four letter word beginning with 'F' and the last name as 'You.' Yes, that's what he filled in when he created his account. Won't that be nice plastered all over the forums.

alienangel · 07/07/10, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Belegûr

You're absolutely right Ratek, I edited my post to reflect that. It's a stupid, childish thing to do, and I certainly don't encourage it.

FWIW, it appears that the 2 people identified with Bashiok's name last night (and who've gotten the brunt of the harrassement so far) probably really weren't him, and are just innocent bystanders. A much more likely candidate (in terms of physical location) has apparently now been found. And the finding was on 4chan instead of on a wow fan-site, so things are likely getting rather unpleasant soon :/

Talgog · 07/07/10, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Onyxhorn

My core issue with this is that in order to utilize all the benefits of this Real ID service, I'm required to get your Battle.net ID to add you to my friends list, and give you mine. This would be all well and good if my battle.net ID couldn't be used to access anything. However, with tying all WoW logins to battle.net id's, I'm now handing you my account username, 1/3rd of the credentials you need to login to my account, liquidate my assets and my guild's bank, and mail all the gold away, or access my account management page and access personal financial information. Do I have an authenticator? Yes. Do I trust it 100% to keep all my personal data safe for me? Absolutely not. This is Network Administration 101. You train your userbase to guard their network credentials as closely as they can, and this Real ID policy flies in the face of that logic.

Yeah, this has the effect of making any username/password combination much easier to crack. It should still be very difficult if not impossible with an intelligently chosen password, but it's a mathematical fact that it's easier to attack 8-12 characters you do not know than 20+ (the effect of having a username input you cannot verify and which has to be correct at the same time the password is correct).

Not to mention the intelligence value you can derive from knowing some personal details rather than none. EDIT: Reference the above post #174 re: 4chan. That's crowd-sourced, but any serious threat can do the same thing.

As to whether this is a good security practice or not is not up for debate. It is not.

Arcite · 07/07/10, 12:32 PM

I remember being really excited for their battle.net changes when they first announced them. Having a unified ID through multiple games so I could connect with my online friends was a great idea. Fast forward to realID only being email addresses, and the one that's tied to my account is my primary one, and I have zero realID friends. I had the same problem on Xbox live where I stupidly signed up for an account with my main email address and thanks to all the sharing of information across services, my gamer tag is my real name, and now I have to pay money if I want to change it.

Plus with the inablity to appear offline when you really just want to play a game in peace, the whole system is going down a really poor path. I usually find all the slippery slope folks to be a bit ridiculous but Blizzard has been rather consistent about making it so you can't be anonymous since they first introduced this (realID as email addresses, showing your real name, inabiilty to be invisible while online), I do worry where else they're going with it.

Kirion · 07/07/10, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Well, now that we have a reason to care, tell us your name friend

No problem, It's Karen Kazaryan. Although when I said about search results, I meant in my native language =)

Originally Posted by Tyrian

If you've recruited for a big raiding guild before, you'd know it can get very nasty and personal. Someone has to make hard decisions and remove bad apples from the guild. The idea that everyone accepts this gracefully, without ill feeling, is absurd. People aren't afraid of a pizza. They are more likely to be worried about prank calls, calls to employer, parents etc. It is hugely ironic posts like this ask everyone else to be realistic.

All Guild Leaders and Guild Recruitment Officers have been put in a very awkward position. If you volunteer to be a scapegoat for your guild, and have every extremely angry/angsty-bad apple who is kicked know your full name, then go ahead.

Yes.. Because noone every fired anyone in real life! Will you go stalk your douche boss in real life? Why are you so quick to assume that it will happen when you kick someone from guild? Besides it's not like knowing real name will magically reveal your location.

And about changing info: right, you can't edit shipping address, but you can add new one.. I wonder what will happen then? Anyway, i'm pretty sure that whole profile information thing will be revamped.

Lastly. It's not like i'm playing devil's advocate. I just prefer not to jump to conclusions before I see the actual implementation of RealID. Also I'v already had couple of heated arguments this year about Facebook, Google Buzz privacy and that ridiculously overblown case of Google Street View and I really hate when people spread misleading information and scaremongering. And I really think that people need to get real: privacy in the age of Internet is something very different from what we knew and subtle. Like it or not, but you need to change your ways accordingly. Internet doesn't forget anything.

P.S. I find really amusing that people are so worried about their online privacy, when they live in country with Patriot Act, that they accepted willingly out of fear.

Tyrian · 07/07/10, 12:46 PM

P.S. I find really amusing that people are so worried about their online privacy, when they live in country with Patriot Act, that they accepted willingly out of fear.

This may shock you, but not everyone lives in the United States. If a young child is worried about their online privacy, i'd like them to have the opportunity to keep that innocence - and desire to protect it - for as long as possible.

You can't also really compare the maturity level of employer's for businesses with the general maturity level of many gamers who spend every waking moment playing a computer game. I wouldn't compare the maturity level of the bad apples i've removed from a guild (probably mostly around the 16-28yo range) to that of any of my employers.

No, people dont need to just 'change their ways accordingly' simply because various multi-national and social-engineering websites would prefer we do. That argument has no substance.

Besides it's not like knowing real name will magically reveal your location

Then go post your real full name on the WoW official forums and dare people to see what information they can find out about you. It's not like anybody took notice or cared when Bashiok did, right? Your post demonstrates that some people are simply blissfully unaware of the realities faced by people who are responisble for recruiting and leading guilds.

Talgog · 07/07/10, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kirion

Lastly. It's not like i'm playing devil's advocate. I just prefer not to jump to conclusions before I see the actual implementation of RealID. Also I'v already had couple of heated arguments this year about Facebook, Google Buzz privacy and that ridiculously overblown case of Google Street View and I really hate when people spread misleading information and scaremongering.

The complaints about those three services are hardly scaremongering. Google Buzz had an outrageous privacy breech issue that could breech confidentiality ethics in a large number of professions and, in the case of personal relationships, quite possibly get people killed. Google Street View is recognized by everyone from Google to the US Department of Defense to the EU (where it is effectively banned) as having potentially dangerous tactical intelligence value.

Facebook - no one really knows exactly what they are doing with the information on their end (other than desperately trying to make money...), but the use of Facebook for intelligence purposes by third parties that are by no means your friend is common knowledge. Employers, opposing counsel in lawsuits and divorces, and scammers all make heavy use of it.

• EasirokThunderpants · 07/07/10, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by Kirion

P.S. I find really amusing that people are so worried about their online privacy, when they live in country with Patriot Act, that they accepted willingly out of fear.

That's a high horse you ride on.

Some of us fought vigorously against that legislation, calling our elected congressmen, knocking on doors to spread information about what was really in that act (and how it had nothing to do with patriotism), and donating real money to that cause.

It was forced on us not unlike this Real ID "feature".

Of course the difference here is I can choose to not play by Blizzard/Activision rules and just cancel my account. Which I really feel I will have no choice about if they continue to pursue this path. And that really sucks as I do enjoy this game, have invested a great deal of personal time into it (as probably all members of this forum have), and was looking forward to Cataclysm, SC2, and Diablo3.

Kirion · 07/07/10, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Tyrian

This may shock you, but not everyone lives in the United States. You can't also really compare the maturity level of employer's for businesses with the general maturity level of many gamers who spend every waking moment playing a computer game. I wouldn't compare the maturity level of the bad apples i've removed from a guild (probably mostly around the 16-28yo range) to that of any of my employers.

No, people dont need to just 'change their ways accordingly' simply because various multi-national and social-engineering websites would prefer we do. That argument has no substance.

Then go post your real full name on the WoW official forums and dare people to see what information they can find out about you. It's not like anybody took notice or cared when Bashiok did, right? Your post demonstrates that some people are simply blissfully unaware of the realities faced by people who are responisble for recruiting and leading guilds.

Well of course not everyone lives in US. I can see (EU) besides WoW characters names, you know =). My point is still valid: people tent to vastly overreact about online privacy, but willingly give governments rights to abuse your privacy in a very very bad way.

Maybe in some kind of magical realm this argument has no substance, Reality however is different, and not just because Facebook effect. As for name, I'v already posted it here. Go google it =)

magealexis · 07/07/10, 1:12 PM

Well, I've canceled my subscription and my SC2 order.

I trusted Blizzard, and they've let me down.

I know I rarely posted here, but I've probably been one of the most active (helpful) posters on the mage forums for many months now.

Maybe this new business model will work for Blizzard, maybe it won't. It doesn't work for me. I do understand my need for privacy, especially when it comes to things that can impact my current and future employment. I'm unsure why so many people aren't concerned...