This may shock you, but not everyone lives in the United States. If a young child is worried about their online privacy, i'd like them to have the opportunity to keep that innocence - and desire to protect it - for as long as possible.

You can't also really compare the maturity level of employer's for businesses with the general maturity level of many gamers who spend every waking moment playing a computer game. I wouldn't compare the maturity level of the bad apples i've removed from a guild (probably mostly around the 16-28yo range) to that of any of my employers.

No, people dont need to just 'change their ways accordingly' simply because various multi-national and social-engineering websites would prefer we do. That argument has no substance.

Then go post your real full name on the WoW official forums and dare people to see what information they can find out about you. It's not like anybody took notice or cared when Bashiok did, right? Your post demonstrates that some people are simply blissfully unaware of the realities faced by people who are responisble for recruiting and leading guilds.

The complaints about those three services are hardly scaremongering. Google Buzz had an outrageous privacy breech issue that could breech confidentiality ethics in a large number of professions and, in the case of personal relationships, quite possibly get people killed. Google Street View is recognized by everyone from Google to the US Department of Defense to the EU (where it is effectively banned) as having potentially dangerous tactical intelligence value.

Facebook - no one really knows exactly what they are doing with the information on their end (other than desperately trying to make money...), but the use of Facebook for intelligence purposes by third parties that are by no means your friend is common knowledge. Employers, opposing counsel in lawsuits and divorces, and scammers all make heavy use of it.

That's a high horse you ride on.

Some of us fought vigorously against that legislation, calling our elected congressmen, knocking on doors to spread information about what was really in that act (and how it had nothing to do with patriotism), and donating real money to that cause.

It was forced on us not unlike this Real ID "feature".

Of course the difference here is I can choose to not play by Blizzard/Activision rules and just cancel my account. Which I really feel I will have no choice about if they continue to pursue this path. And that really sucks as I do enjoy this game, have invested a great deal of personal time into it (as probably all members of this forum have), and was looking forward to Cataclysm, SC2, and Diablo3.

Well of course not everyone lives in US. I can see (EU) besides WoW characters names, you know =). My point is still valid: people tent to vastly overreact about online privacy, but willingly give governments rights to abuse your privacy in a very very bad way.



Maybe in some kind of magical realm this argument has no substance, Reality however is different, and not just because Facebook effect. As for name, I'v already posted it here. Go google it =)

Well, I've canceled my subscription and my SC2 order.

I trusted Blizzard, and they've let me down.

I know I rarely posted here, but I've probably been one of the most active (helpful) posters on the mage forums for many months now.

Maybe this new business model will work for Blizzard, maybe it won't. It doesn't work for me. I do understand my need for privacy, especially when it comes to things that can impact my current and future employment. I'm unsure why so many people aren't concerned...

Who are you again?

Protest with your wallet all you like, but Blizzard honestly does not care.


As for the whole privacy thing...don't like RealID? Don't use it. Don't like people being able to see every bit about you on Facebook? Uh, don't put it on Facebook.

Anything you put on the internet becomes non-private, so don't put private things there?

Not any more amusing than some smug, foreign prick who thinks that "patriot act = we gives u r freedums."

And another thing. From here on, anyone who has nothing to add to the discussion other than a proclamation to the world that they've cancelled a Blizzard subscription or pre-order is going to get a 5-point infracftion from me.

So you really don't care if I start messaging your friends and your employer now? I mean, I can't pronounce their names, but I can identify them with a fair degree of likelihood, just from 5 minutes of poking around (which includes some wasted reading your views on various IRL subjects, some of which I disagree with more than your RealID views btw) without even knowing russian. Someone who really wanted to could do a much better job.

Out of curiosity an IRC channel I visit recently had a rather trustworthy member from New Zealand play a little game. Several of the members gave this person their first and last name. Said person was able to find the precise address, age, gender, and phone number of every single person who participated except myself(this is because nowhere on the internet on any site anywhere is my first and last name listed).

This is a group of about 12 people. 11/12 with just their name being enough information to stalk and if inclined perform grievous harm to them.

I canceled my account shortly before 3.4. I was considering resubbing for Cata so there's new content to work through, but in light of this I've chosen to take my business elsewhere, even though it's not in any way dangerous to me personally. I can't support a company that flaunts its customers private information with an easily exploited system like this.

Losing ones ability to generate income vs losing ones ability to raid are two totally different scenarios and people will react differently accordingly.
And yes it does happen!


(the links are various crimes both related to wow and losing ones job)

"I am safe from this so it is a safe idea," is a completely facile position. First, it is always unfair to impose your opinions on others. Moreover, you are imposing your opinions about personal privacy onto others, which is logically absurd by any definition of personal privacy.

Second, privacy and security are not binary states. It's not a matter of being completely protected or being an immediate victim. At issue is the number of connections between already-available information. Increasing connections can never increase privacy. Privacy lost cannot be restored.

Finally, this question of personal privacy is really a question of network security. The wisdom (or lack thereof) of this policy is not measured by whether or not I personally am affected. It is measured by counting how many people are affected. It will be a small fraction of 10 million people, but it will be a positive fraction. The point is not who makes the mistakes or what mistakes they make. The point is that this will introduce risks that were not present before, and these risks will have real consequences for real people. That is why this is such a horrible idea.

It begs the question to even mention how this change would affect you personally.

That's very true, and definitely something they're setting a precedent for with their decision to in the future only allow you to post on their forums if you choose to reduce your privacy. The argument they use for why it's advantageous to us users is also somewhat worrisome. "Removing the veil of anonymity" as they so eloquently put it would certainly encourage players to engage in less questionable behaviors in-game, but at the same time every act you take in the game would make everyone around you know that the real name of the person doing it to them.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I've had some pretty bad in-game reactions to removing someone from the guild I'm in. But that just stayed in-game, no repercussions elsewhere (Well, a bit on our guild forums but that was solvable through an IP Ban). With my real name however, they'd have a much easier time tracking things both to my actual self, but also to some online services I do use under my real name.

But that's all beside the actual point. What's happening here is that a service previously available is being denied to you unless you choose to forsake some of your privacy, and that's something very few people are comfortable with, and for good reason.

I've read reports that apparently the page to cancel your subscription is down and the phonelines to do the same are at the 90 min. waiting time. The thread on the WoW forums has issues as the server can't cope. "Server is busy, try again". Even so, it's growing incredibly fast.

The BBC as well as USAToday are getting interested too. This is starting to backfire on Blizzard in, dare I say, quite a beautiful way.

I actually tried this myself quite a number of posts ago in the big RealID thread. I linked my name, facebook page and blog. From those things it would be quite easy to for someone to figure out precisely where I live, including which building. The result? Nothing, no one even replied to it, though obviously with 20k posts the chance that mine is going to be read by anyone at this point is miniscule. I personally have absolutely no fear of putting my real name out there, and I have been a recruiter, guild leader and active pug leader for years now.

I think there are a very large number of people blowing up on the basis of very irrational fears regarding RealID. Putting your real name on a forum post is significantly less dangerous than crossing the street and yet people do quite happily cross the street all the time, not to mention other more dangerous actions like smoking, not exercising, etc. The fact is that the actual risk this represents is miniscule by any measure.

However, in order to justify doing something that is going to royally piss off a large number of their customers Blizzard really needs to find a compelling reason for RealID on forums and they have failed to produce one so far. A gamertag identity on forums would help significantly with the anonymous level 1 alts and an aggressive campaign of serious bans would get rid of the worst trolls. Even with RealID they will have to aggressively ban people for trolling anyway so the benefits of doing it seem fairly slim.

Given the current uselesness of the official forums I would support RealID if it was the only way to accomplish their goal of improving their forums. I think it is an improvement over what we have now but I am not at all convinced that Blizzard can't come up with something that has nearly all the benefits and none of the potential drawbacks of RealID.

The bravery of one doesn't solve the fear of many.

I highlighted the relevant part. The big complaint here is a lack of choice. And whether "you personally" or "I personally" think X, Y or Z about said topic - is no justifiable reason to take away the lack of choice from all consumers, some of whom may vehemently wish to protect something others treat with relative nonchalance. Both of those viewpoints (with regards to online privacy) should be able to co-exist, and it's disturbing that these features being proposed are attempting to make them mutually exclusive with each other.

I posted that specifically because I wanted to highlight that being a recruitment officer, guild leader, etc. and thus needing to post on the official forums is not a guarantee of hating RealID. Many people have posited it just like that, that anyone who 'must' post on the forums for guild reasons would hate RealID and I was showing the counterexample. I don't think my views represent everyone.

I am not some kind of mindless Blizzard fanboi and I don't think that RealID is the best way to achieve their stated goals. I do think though that the current forums are an example of one of the terrible places on the internet and that RealID would make it a better place. An analogy:

I am very hungry

Current forums are a stick
RealID forums are an raw potato
*something else* forums are a chocolate cake

I would surely like chocolate cake if I could get it, but if I have to choose between a raw potato and a stick to satisfy my hunger I will take the raw potato every time. I think they can do better, but I will take this over status quo.

I just called their 1-800 line and got an automated message saying that the queue is maxed, is no longer accepting new callers, and to use the website instead.

Other news sites are also reporting on the issue.

I restate my bravery of you doesnt ease the fear of many, and saying yeah its bad but its better then nothing is mearly comforming to the problem and letting them do it. If something is messed up you shouldnt just LET something happen, "Oh i really hate how everytime I go to work I get kicked in the groin but you know its better then letting people in that isnt supposed to everyday so I'll just say meh". Its wrong no matter how you put it, forcing they are forcing people to reveal their privacy for the sake of removing trolls if that is their solution I will take a little 13 year old kid calling me a <insert obcenity here> on a level 1 alt over this any day.

Sometimes, social and reputational damage may inflict worse and longer-lasting adverse effects than physical damage. I agree it's probably exaggerated for most situations, but it does happen.

Sure, this may very well curb the trolls and flamers, but wouldn't it affect the better part of the forums itself? Yes, it is a very small minority of the current forum users, but there are good posts and suggestions that can be found in the official forums. My concern is that the system will be more effective in weeding out these helpful posts rather than the trolls and flamers, which will still exist no matter what.

Here's my question on all of this: How do they advertise to the parental consumer? Would they really tell parents (assuming they read the fine print) that the account holder's name is shared if the account is used on the forums, but that they can turn that off?