We got them to 15% and 10% respectively until Romulo's tank (me) died.
Then after that attempt we wiped another 4 times and called it a night.. We're using a prot warrior and a prot paladin as tanks. We tried having both tanks tanking Romulo but the result were the same:
At one point in the 3rd phase, he gets his buff, swings for about 4k and swings his instant attack for about 4.5k at the same time. Both tank are around 14k HP (Not Flasked). But with his swing speed, that 8.5k burst kills us.
We have a Fel Hunter on Romulo, and a priest dispelling, a shaman and a mage dispelling Julianne. Julianne sometimes will cast on the Fel hunter and it makes the Dispel on Romulo a bit slower.
Do we dispel too slow? Or is there anyway to lessen the big spike romulo's tank always get?
Right now all i can think of is Flasking myself...
Have your mage dps Romulo and spellsteal the buff, that will likely be faster than the felhunter. The Romulo tank can also stoneshield, which will take a big chunk off of his attacks.
If the priest dispelling romulo gets caught for that 2 seconds trying to heal while his buff goes up, you might be screwed. The people in charge of dispelling Romulo should be dispelling first, doing dps/healing second.
We usually have a priest dispell Julianne and heal everyone she hits and then have the warlock and mage on Romulo dispelling fulltime, works pretty well from the few times we've done them. Edit: Depending on the gear the priest that's healing Julianne's damage, keeping a renew on Romulo helps a ton if you can keep up with mana.
Stoneshield or Ironshield during that last phase should help. Having an NS or Swiftmend capable healer could help. Keeping the tank topped off should help. The simplest answer though is to dispel faster. Immediate dispelling and interrupting heals are the most important keys to the encounter.
Edit: Also, put the mage on Romulo. Don't ask a healer to dispel it and heal the tank. Julianne's buff does not have a huge impact on the mage's damage, so forget that. Ranged are better DPSing Romulo because of the cleave, and melee can kill/interrupt Julianne.
We brought 4 healers to that fight: druid, priest, and 2 paladins. In phase three we had one paladin on julianne's tank, which is a pretty easy thing to solo heal, with the druid occasionally tossing HoTs. The other three healers basically spammed the Romulo tank, who buffed had around 16k health. We didn't have too hard of a time healing through the burst with a flashing paladin and a hot stacking druid. having a warrior with a happy trigger finger on last stand isn't too bad of a thing either
Keep him debuffed the entire time. Thunderclap, demoshout, the hunter 5% miss sting (scorpid?) and anything else you can chuck on him.
Make sure you've always got commanding shout up and shield block is always on cooldown, when he gains Daring disarm him if its not already on cooldown, trinkets like Dabiri's Enigma/Moroes Pocketwatch/etc are very nice for popping on Daring as they usually have a 2 minute cooldown and can be used more than once in the fight.
Fel blossoms and nightmare seeds are also very nice for chewing down when you feel in a precarious position, as are Ironshield Potions(if a little expensive). Other than that all you can do is hope and pray that whoever is removing the debuff doesn't get a resist, or you're pretty much dogfood.
I'll 2nd the recommendation that the mage should DPS Romulo and focus on the spellsteal. All melee DPS should be on Julianne for interrupts and cleave avoidance, anyway.
Do we dispel too slow? Or is there anyway to lessen the big spike romulo's tank always get?
Right now all i can think of is Flasking myself...
For us it was basically just the tank. We had him flasked first time but gear was lowish. Got him all felsteel pieces, good gems and enchants and we went from chain-wiping to Romulo-tank burst damage to rather comfortable tanking on him.
He does burst for 13k no problem even if you do everything right. If you are at 14k unbuffed I'd recommend flasks for sure. 15k+ is comfort zone on the tank in this fight.
As for strategies: Hold disarm for the daring warning and disarm immediately. Still has a change to parry it. Of course felhunter on it is very good. Are you cleansing the poison? Should be done immediately too. That's another source of damage on the tank. Otherwise keep shield block up and make sure to use the damage reducing debuffs your group has to offer (ask hunters to keep scorpid sting up for example, demo shout etc) is not really all that optional.
If you do all this and get tank deaths, it's flasking or finding another 1k health in gear.
Edit: I certainly highly recommend the warrior on Romulo, you do want the disarm and shield block + warrior debufs here. It's nice to have shield bash for Julianne but hopefully you have other interrupt options for her.
Our best attempt was with Warrior on Julianne and Me (paladin) on Romulo. Our Reasoning behind this was that Disarm with 1min cooldown wasn't making up for Redoubt (wich is just about always on on romulo) and that as a paladin tank, the 2 stack poison he puts on me i can fast cleanse myself (portrait under my character + middle mouse button for cleanse) of 1 of them and the poison cleanse totem takes the other.
2 things i'll do that i didnt do: Flask + Stoneshields.
And we'll put the mage on romulo... I think we should get it with these 3 changes.. thanks for the feedback.
We got them to 15% and 10% respectively until Romulo's tank (me) died.
Then after that attempt we wiped another 4 times and called it a night.. We're using a prot warrior and a prot paladin as tanks. We tried having both tanks tanking Romulo but the result were the same:
At one point in the 3rd phase, he gets his buff, swings for about 4k and swings his instant attack for about 4.5k at the same time. Both tank are around 14k HP (Not Flasked). But with his swing speed, that 8.5k burst kills us.
We have a Fel Hunter on Romulo, and a priest dispelling, a shaman and a mage dispelling Julianne. Julianne sometimes will cast on the Fel hunter and it makes the Dispel on Romulo a bit slower.
Do we dispel too slow? Or is there anyway to lessen the big spike romulo's tank always get?
Right now all i can think of is Flasking myself...
Looking at your profile on armory (I'm assuming that's what you were wearing, right now I have some crappy healing set on in armory, so /shrug) I see your hit points are a bit low for what I would want to see on a Romulo tank. First of all, you should probably have 2 healers on the romulo tank, and you should keep your health topped up as much as possible. Tanking romulo, if I see my health constantly hovering at 60% I know that a wipe is soon to follow.
When daring pops up you've got the chance to get hit by at least one swing (assuming you don't dodge/parry) and one instant, and he has his offhand attack. Basically this means you're always risking taking about 10k damage under the unluckiest of conditions.
Stoneshields/ironshields help keep your HPs at a reasonable level, and reduce the burst on heroism, but it means you lose the cooldown to use a potion.
You probably don't need a flask, but it would help with the hit point buffer. I would recommend jamming more +12 stamina gems in all of your gear when you can afford it, if you want some cheap consumables use elixir of fortitude, food and rum.
Just make sure your healers keep you topped up constantly, and that daring is removed right away, and beat them.
Looking at your profile on armory (I'm assuming that's what you were wearing, right now I have some crappy healing set on in armory, so /shrug) I see your hit points are a bit low for what I would want to see on a Romulo tank.
My armory is unbuffed right now.. Also, I switch my neck and rings on Romulo for similar ones with a bit less avoidance but more Stam wich nets me about 10.3k HP unbuffed. With rum, food fort mark and kings and commanding shout i jump to 14.5ish HP... I also have mats for Stam on bracers but i kinda wanted to be waiting to get the ones from heroic ramparts before using them...
Since we had this event three times in a row in our first three Karazhan ids, some suggestions how we do it (assuming you have an equal class distribution in your raid):
- Put the Warlock Fel Hound on Julia, Attacking and dispelling (worked pretty well for us)
- Mage spellsteals all debuffs from Romulo (and still keeps an eye on Julianne, if the dog dispells too slow)
- Healers concentrate on healing, that magic dispell should be sufficient, in the first try we had a priest dispelling as well, but it's not required if the fel hound survives (heal it!) and the mage plays well
- Paladin dispells Poison on the Romulo tank(so a resto druid can stay in tree form)
- Use Hunter Snake Traps to reduce the required healing of the raid, as Julianne will focus the snakes
- 1 Healer for Julianne, 2 for Romulo, all crosshealing Julia's targets, while priest/pala focus on the Romulo tank and resto druid spams Lifebloom and sometimes Regrowth to keep the raid alive and heals the Julianne tank
- Melee dps for the whole fight on Juilianne, ranged dps on Romulo till 10-15%, then all switch to Julianne and finish both in time
Disarm ist not required imho, we had a warrior tanking Julianne and a feral tanking Romulo (better gear, better mitigation than the warrior) and in another try both were tanked by ferals. Crit immunity (415 defense on a feral druid with survival of the fittest, 490 without such a talent, i don't know paladin protection talents well enough, there was only a +def bonus, no -crit%, right?), really helps.
Disarm ist not required imho, we had a warrior tanking Julianne and a feral tanking Romulo (better gear, better mitigation than the warrior) and in another try both were tanked by ferals. Crit immunity (415 defense on a feral druid with survival of the fittest, 490 without such a talent, i don't know paladin protection talents well enough, there was only a +def bonus, no -crit%, right?), really helps.
There's no -crit talent in protection (There is in retribution, /shrug) but wearing tank gear it's pretty much impossible not to have over 490 defense. I have over 520, and I'm specifically trying to lose some defense and gain some more stamina. (About 10.7k unbuffed hps)
Anyways, a warlock hunter devouring is pretty fast, the problem I found with the felhunter was that it's hard to keep an eye out on his hit points compared to the normal classes, and if he dies, there's the threat that he could get daring before he's resummoned. With a felhunter you can just spam the devour button (since it doens't interrupt the warlock's casting) and it will only take it when it's up.
The advantage of having the mage spell stealing is that your mage is not going to die as frequently to blinding passion.
I'm sure you can do it, tanking yourself. Another thing to keep an eye out for is blinding passion. Let the healers know if you get it (over vent or whatever) and take your healthstone or a potion or whatever, because if you have that when he gets daring you need to be completely topped off or you'll drop like a rock.
We've had this fight almost every week we've done Karazhan, frankly I think it's a bit overtuned for this part of the instance.
You really should consider having a feral druid or a warrior tank this, it will reduce the damage from crushing blows which is where the majority of the spike damage comes from. He has hit me for 6k crushing followed by a 4k deadly swath on a wipe before, so your main goal should really be to eliminate those as much as possible. Even with Redoubt up, I doubt you're crushing immune like a warrior will be. A warrior brings more to the fight than just disarm.
Helpful buffs/debuffs:
- Demo Shout/Roar
- Thunderclap (now in defensive stance)
- Disarm
- Stoneshield/ironshield
- Last Stand
- Lay on Hands near the end
- Shieldwall (at the end if needed)
Buffs if you're undergeared:
- Elixir of defense
- Elixir of Agility (greater or major = ~1% dodge for a warrior)
- Elixir of mastery (15 stam + 15 agi + 15 str)
- Crawdads or +20 stam food
- Rum from CoT for 15 stam
- You really shouldn't need to flask for this.
We put ranged on Romulo (mage + hunter or Lock), melee on Julianne (rogue + enhancement shaman). The mage spellsteals on romulo, felhunter + shaman purge (or priest healer using the handy f key) for Julianne should be enough to manage her selfbuff.
Also, get deadly boss mods and turn on announcements. It should help the slow kids if they don't notice the self-buff casting. I also call out on vent if it's up for more than a couple seconds.
Last edited by Fellwraith : 03/13/07 at 12:16 PM.
Reason: formatting
Depending on your gear an SS pot is good enough to make the difference between getting your head caved in and taking a manageable amount of damage. I haven't potted for him and had the distinct luck of getting him 2 times in the last 3 trips, but each time we 1 shot it. Its always been for us ranged 2 on him, melee/interrupters on Julianne, Priest dispels, 1 healer on each tank and it hasn't been much of a problem.
Oh and this is just standard good sense, but make sure your tank actually makes an effort to keep up Demoralizing Shout, and now Thunder Clap on Romulo. While it should go without saying, I think many folks don't realize how good Demoralizing Shout is in a raid setting, or any setting really.
We've had this fight almost every week we've done Karazhan, frankly I think it's a bit overtuned for this part of the instance.
You really should consider having a feral druid or a warrior tank this, it will reduce the damage from crushing blows which is where the majority of the spike damage comes from. He has hit me for 6k crushing followed by a 4k deadly swath on a wipe before, so your main goal should really be to eliminate those as much as possible. Even with Redoubt up, I doubt you're crushing immune like a warrior will be. A warrior brings more to the fight than just disarm.
He hits faster than twice every 5 seconds, so a warrior is not crushing immune either.
From what I can see, flasks and stone/ironshield would be more crutches for you at this point. Your gear and stats should be enough to get you through the encounter, assuming competant healing. Your question "are we just dispelling too slow?" is the pertinent one here. The answer is yes, that buff shouldn't be on long enough to get that much of a burst of damage going.
Like others here have said, there should be one person who's primary responsibility is dispelling, and it really shouldn't be your healer. In our successful kills, it was a mage spellstealing it, as that seemed to work out much quicker and more efficiently. In a fight where there is that much potential for burst damage, taking your healer away from a primary healing responsiblity is going to get you killed.
I'd push for working on the solution to the dispelling before using consumables. It's a key skill that will benefit you more in the long term that using consumables which may or may not be changed in utility.
Mages spell steal Daring, they can toss detect magic on him and listen to whatever boss mod you have that announces it - then spell steal ASAP when it pops.
I agree with the above posters. I always assign myself to spell steal and dps on Romulo.
I assist in the setting up of the fight, in which we have a Feral Druid Off Tank and a Prot Warrior Main Tank. Phases 1 and 2 are simple burn downs, which you're already familiar with.
In phase 3, I have one of our locks put his Felhunter on Julianne to remove the Devotion buff that she obtains. I also put all of our Melee dps onto Julianne, as they will not receive any cleaves from Romulo. The rest of the dps (usually myself a hunter and the warlock) burns down Romulo from ranged.
The Main Tank ensures to disarm whenever he can. I toss up a detect magic immediately upon spawn. As soon as I see him receive the Daring buff, I interrupt my spell cast and immediately spellsteal it from him. This allows for only the potential of maybe 1 hit on the tank, while he is buffed in that fashion.
The key to this fight, is just to have people who are on the ball with interrupts and dispells/spellsteals/purges, in addition to healing and tanking with the proper gear requirements. That's how I always see it, at least.
Basically what everyone has said above. An important thing to note is that he cannot use his deadly swathe ability when he is disarmed. Also, having a felhunter on auto-dispel means it is also up and attacking Romulo as well. This leaves it open to getting destroyed by Romulo's backward lunge. I suggest putting the felhunter on Julianne.
As the others have said, all the melee are on Julianne, all the ranged on Romulo. Oh, and if you have a shaman, they and the tank can pretty much lock down Julianne by themselves.
("they and the tank" does not sound right at all, but for the life of me I can't figure out the proper grammar for it. I blame the morning)
With the 2 pc moonglade bonus from the druid healing me. I push crushes with Holy shield alone or Redoubt alone And since Redoubt is almost always up i push crushes a LOT more reliably than a warrior on Romulo.
We have a Resto Shaman, rogue and warrior + feral druid in cat form on Julianne. Hunter lock and now mage and myself on Romulo. Priest and Resto druid healing.
Since either it was me or the warrior on romulo, the end result was always the same burst-ish buffed romulo killing us... hence why i was thinking dispelling was more an issue than who tanked him atm.
Some very useful tips for this encounter. It's made our kills far easier.
- Move your Felhunter onto Julianne and leave auto-cast Devour Magic on. This frees up your Warlock to focus fire and concentrate more completely on DPS.
- Move a Mage onto Romulo instead for Spellsteal. You won't notice as many resists because unlike Felpups, players actually have +hit gear and talents. This helps resolve some of the panic when tanks get owned. That buff has to come off w/in like 2-3 seconds.
03/13/07, 10:26 AM
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