◊ Bryne

We can revisit the old mechanics thread where this was brought up a billion times, but the bottom line is that haste effects for hunters aren't anywhere close to where they were with Aimed Shot now that our primary attack is fighting the GCD.

 

◊ Hanos

Most rogues use 2 weapons... actually all of them do, so even using my weapons 1.9 speed MH and 1.5 speed OH with Mutilate, 60/1.9 = 31.57, 60/1.5 = 40 gives you a 3.2% chance MH and 2.5% chance OH, this is a combine rate of 2 procs per minute, or 2.6 with S&D up. In addition with Mutilate you get 2 more attacks every 6 seconds, so that is another 20 attacks, 10 at a 3.2% chance and 10 at 2.5% = .57 more procs. So for every 1 ppm the trinket has a rogue would get up to 3.17 procs per minute... not sure a hunter would proc it more (at 5% if it procs off all that it 3.085 if it procs off everything and my guess is Arcane doesn't proc it since it is magic)

 

kysta

Haste effects reduce the global cooldown.

 

Kody

You know, I wonder if the offhand damage penalty is at play here, and that's reducing the haste benefit for offhands as well.

 

◊ Bryne

Here we go again!

(This was the "how do you get that square minimap?" question of the hunter mechanics thread, for those who weren't involved in that. Haste effects have no effect on the GCD, this is pretty easily testable.)

 

alienangel

Does the off-hand use the same proc values calculated by PPM from the MH speed, or would it have it's own PPM based proc value calculated?

*fingers crossed for the thread not getting sidetracked into another "better for my class than yours" or "haste works on GCD!" thread*

edit: just for discussion's sake, even if haste doesn't affect the GCD, until you get enough haste to reduce your autoshot speed below 1.5s haste still helps since with bows that are slower than that normally, you're still wasting time between steady shot and autoshot by not firing steady again till the next auto has fired. Haste makes the next auto fire sooner, and also makes sure your steady shot shortens in cast time so as not to prevent that auto casting sooner.

 

topojijo

Getting the autoshot timer to 1.5 would probably not be the best idea because there is still that delay from you firing the steady. You would most likely clip a lot of your next autoshot if the ranged weapon was firing that fast.

 

alienangel

As I understand it, the delay from firing the steady begins when the steady ends, not when the GCD ends. Since haste appears to affect both steady and auto in the same ratio, if you weren't clipping your auto while unhasted, you won't be clipping it while hasted either, since the steady finishes casting sooner too.

Anyway, we have the hunter thread to talk about this!

 

kysta

Well, then I am pretty confused because I see a shorter global cooldown when I have a heroism buff. I don't see why it would reduce a warlock's global cooldown and not a hunter's.

 

dukes

I believe (from reading the mage thread which has some haste effect stuff in it) that haste effects are different from bloodlust/heroism. Both shaman casts reduce everything by 30%, while haste effects are a percentage based upon the level and the haste size. Bloodlust and heroism basically don't count as haste effects for the purposes of GCD.

 

◊ Lactose

15% Quiver haste
40% Rapid Fire haste
15% Quick Shots haste
20% Serpent's Swiftness haste

Spamming Steady Shot - an ability with 1.5 second cast time (affected by hastes) and no cooldown (excepting the global cooldown) - have, both on its own and combined, given me the error message "That ability isn't ready yet"*.
Trying to use Steady Shot while another Steady Shot is firing (which is the only scenario without any hastes and when the Shot has fired yet) prompts: "Another action in progress"*.

In other words, haste effects do not reduce the global cooldown for Steady Shot, even though it speeds up its casting time

*Error messages not verbatim.

-----

You need a delay of 0.5 seconds after Steady Shot is fired to fire an Auto Shot. This delay is fixed (not affected by hastes).

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Auto attacks can easily be viewed as an ability with a cooldown, which automatically triggers once the cooldown is up. Attack, set cooldown, when cooldown expires: attack again.
This means there is no such thing as a partially hasted attack.
At the moment of attack, the cooldown (delay until next Auto Attack is possible) is set, based on your current Weapon Speed. This Weapon Speed includes any and all haste effects currently affecting you.
I do not know if dual wielding is handled differently somehow, nor how the Parry time reduction interacts with this.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Cyrithor

I apologize for deterring this thread off the hunter subject, but I thought it might be decent data to add to the original topic, with my own experience with my Dragonspine Trophy and procs. When I picked this up, I was kind of on a haste rating kick, and thus wanted to test to proc rate for myself. I went out to the Blasted lands, and for roughly about 40 minutes, just auto attacked (duel wielding) no specials, no Slice and Dice, no instant attacks, with two 1.8 speed weapons. I found the average ppm of the trinket to be for my session at ~2.25ppm, for the whole duration. Granted, like was commented on earlier, there was a significant number of "extended" procs, where the proc just refreshes itself, so I'd be in agreement with the statement that the proc itself has no hidden cooldown - which is nice. I'm at work currently so can't post my procwatch screenshot, but I can do so when I get home this evening, if it will help add anything to the discussion about the trinket.

I've found the uptime on the buff to be fairly substantial, and an earlier poster in here commented about how a rogue picked it up, and was dissatisfied with the trinket, and banked it - I would say that he just wasn't paying close enough attention to the actual uptime of the proc.

Edit: Here's the SS



One thing to note, was the 'events' as are registered was just the time taken for me to vanish, bandage, and re-initiate combat, but since it was all auto attack anyways I dont think it should effect the data, so you can just add the event times, swings, hits, and procs together.

 

Nitz

Haste effects do not reduce the global cooldown (but Bloodlust does so).

 

• Aldriana

Cyrithor's results are very interesting; when compared to the procwatch posted on wowhead (http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6...onspineej3.jpg) it shows a much higher proc rate both in terms of PPM and raw% of procs - looking at it, it's hard to believe both procwatches are from the same trinket. I'd be interested to see the proc data from other people with the trinket.

 

Svidrigailov

I'm a little confused as to how his number could be so much higher than mine, but it always did feel like it procced far more than it ought to, even factoring in SnD and instants.

 

Cyrithor

/shrug I can take some time in the next couple of days and test it for a longer period of time if you like. I noticed the difference between mine, and wowhead as well. Not really sure what the difference could be.

 

Devlin

i take it your proc watch checks the combat log for the event "haste" in your case.
could it be that someone else in the raid has a buff/skill including the word haste?

seeing that other proc watch, it is set to "you gain haste" which is much more specific, and therefore more reliable.

 

• Erongg

You say you were on a "haste rating kick." Hopefully none of these other haste items were equipped at the time?

 

alienangel

I think the mod only checks combat messages tied to you, since most similar mods do that. However, note that the effects from Abacus of Violent Odds and (I think) Haste Potions are also named "Haste" - but I doubt he'd accidentally use those while testing this.

 

Svidrigailov

It scans your combat log for any message containing the string of your choice. Just "haste" should, in theory, pick up anything that anyone in range does.

 

Cyrithor

As I said in my original post, I wasn't using any specials, thus things such as 4 piece Assassination (which i wasn't wearing) wouldn't be triggered, and wouldn't be shown in the combat log. I made sure the only item I had equipped that would grant a buff with the word "Haste" in my combat log was infact the Dragonspine Trophy. I also did this very late in the morning, only two people I saw throughout the duration was a fresh 60 warlock running to the Dark Portal, and a leveling guildmate's Shaman who came by to heal me a couple times. I believe I was the only one in the zone other than those people. Also I don't have my combat log set to the maximum range via the command. So it wasn't picking up anyone, but my own procs of the trinket. I'm quite busy with work lately, and Hydross progression, but when I get some spare time (hopefully this weekend) I will get a longer parse for you all.

 

Expigator

Just picked this up last night and with the few moments I had to test it, the procs were coming in plenty. Now to figure out highest returns of haste effects.....drakefist, flurry, mongoose, dragonspine, heroism, etc.

I'll try to parse some in my raids tonight.

EDIT: incorrect word usage of diminishing vs highest returns. Directed towards incoming windfury weapon fix.

 

• Erongg

Diminishing returns?

 

WarrenKTF

If you tell the mod to track just "haste" it picks up both the message saying you gained the effect and the message saying it has faded. So you end up seeing double the actual ppm.

 

• Aldriana

Ah, that makes sense. Good call.

So, that makes the overall proc rate accoss multiple trials 1.3, which is what the procwatch from the original data said. Things make sense now.