senior toasted bread

You can't make a blanket statement about DST being good or bad for hunters, it's usefulness depends on too many factors; namely weapon, spec, and latency.
A BM hunter with a 2.8 speed weapon , high latency and some passive haste items may find this to be of almost no use. On the other hand a MM or Survival hunter with a 3.0 speed weapon, low latency and no passive haste could get a substantial dps increase.

In the end don't decide who this goes to because they are x class with y spec, there are many more individual factors that must be taken into consideration

 

Stigmata

While this is correct, it is only the case because the best trinket is bugged and proccing alot more than the tooltip suggests it should.

DST is the best trinket in the game for a shaman, a bugged item does not constitute better imo.

Once again someone with little or no knowledge of how enhancement shaman works spouting off. Shaman catagorically are no more threat capped than any other melee class, we do not have the same threat drop as a rogue, but we do not generate as much damage/threat as a rogue.

A dps warrior is in the same position as a shaman threat wise, but with a half decent tank it is not a problem for either.

Do you give all your caster items to your warlocks? Fuck off the mages and spriests because they do less damage, No you wouldn't and if you did they would leave for a decent guild. Just because a rogue does more damage, does not mean they deserve and item more than anyone else.

 

Dizzapeer

Some guilds like to make sure items that drop from bosses that don't necessarily make the scheduled raids when working on new content go to the people that will benefit raid dps the most. This means both reliable players who aren't going to loot and scoot, and the players that have proven to be top dps in the past. If there is a rogue that is dependable and consistently tops the charts, hell yes he should get it.



Course, I have one already, so my opinion is probably biased.

 

Stigmata

Part of being in a successful guild is keeping members happy, we dont have people "loot and scoot" so that is not an issue for us. But in turn we don't deny loot to people who turn up everyweek and give 100%, we decide all loot allocation on lvl of pve upgrade, attendance and previous loot allocation.

Pissing off your shaman or dps warrior will go along way to them not enjoying the game, replacing either with equal geared/skilled players would not be easy, same goes for all classes.

I would suggest it maybe comes down to the type of person that plays a rogue, often (but not in all cases) the rogues i've been in guilds with have been selfish and perhaps what you may call a "loot whore" not always a bad thing, pixels are what drives some people so thats fine.

 

Maskirovka

Shamans don't get a passive 10% threat reduction like rogues and warriors in zerk stance.

But, I'd be pissed too because even with really nice stats and an enh shaman in group I have a tough time getting threat capped on 90% of content.

 

Hozz

We have horrible luck with this trinket. We have seen only one in almost 20 kills.

Do you think this will ever get a hidden CD? It does not seem like the best trinket in the game for multiple classes/builds should drop off an entry level raid boss.

 

Devion

No to derail, but do note that the best Rogue gloves (till naxx, arguably asgood as the T3 unbonus'd) did drop off Magmadar. I don't agree that DST should be asgood as it is (placing etc) however it's not unusual for wildly amazingly loot to drop so early on, with a 'out of the box' type ability/stat that doesn't translate to iLevel easily (like +daggers in the previous example).

I raid for the Professor Plums

 

Malan

Sigh. Come on... really?

Spirit Weapons - 15% threat reduction on all melee attacks. Enhancement Talent Tree, 1 point.


Look, arguing over "who deserves it more" based purely on their class is stupid.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

• Erongg

And it's 29% for rogues and 20% for warriors.

Finite Simple Group of Order Two

 

dukes

...

Rogues get 29% reduction, same as Feral Druids.

Warriors get 20% reduction in Battle and Zerk stances.

Shamans get 15% from Spirit Weapons.

Less blanket statements that are completely wrong thanks.

The dragonspine trophy is pretty much the best DPS trinket for any class, and which scales very very well (I believe that tsunami talisman/madness are better for feral druids but not entirely sure on that due to haste rating interaction with procs). When everyone uses different systems (multiple styles of DKP or loot council systems) arguing over who should get the trinket in class-specific terms is just stupid.

People in Celebrity are likely to be more aggressive over the trinket than other people may be due to us having had one drop since the start of doing Gruul.

 

Maskirovka

Ya, the 10 was a typo, sorry about that. Anyway you were the one who said same boat threat wise...and that's not the case. At least you cleared that up. I didn't mean to include rogues as having the same threat reduction as warriors, or dismiss the shaman talent...heh what a crappy sentence I wrote. Sigh I just woke up...never post before work =\

My point was only to say that it's not the same percentages between classes. 5% can make quite a difference during a fight. Last morogrim I was at 107% at the end according to Omen during executes.

Regardless, I was agreeing about it being stupid to limit it by class...people can leave those kinds of comments to thottbot. The only thing that's been worth talking about here IMO is hunter shot rotations + haste and wether or not that makes the trinket worth using for them.

 

Teez

mind you, execute has extra threat associated with it (+25% threat iirc.)

Warrior - Shaman - Priest

 

Cesar2000

You sure? First time I hear that...

 

Forar

While Fury (formerly Einheriar) certainly wasn't on the bleeding edge of content for killing Gruul, we've been killing him a while now, and to my knowledge we haven't had a single one of these drop yet.

But drop rate bitching aside, the numbers put forth thus far are pretty impressive. I'm currently using a DFT (for the +hit, and even then I'm still just under the cap) and a Poison Vial at the moment, so I'm pondering dkp on a trinket upgrade. This or the VR trinket (the name elludes me) are feasible, but until I can pick up the Merciless Gladiator's main hand next week and up my hit just a bit more, I'm warry of dropping any more Hit, even on such a top notch trinket.

 

Brissa

You shouldnt be, Hit isnt the be all end all of itemization.
And also I feel with you on the bad luck with drops on this thing, we are most likely going to stop doing gruul (due to time contstraints and having to focus elsewhere) before we ever get a drop.

To the other person above you, yes execute does more threat than normal abilities. It was found out by Kenco a while back.

 

Spades

Warp-Spring Coil is the trinket you're thinking of.

Hit is a very strong stat, but haste is much stronger. You'll get a big DPS boost by dropping that Drakefang for a Coil or Trophy.

We had one DST drop for us on a "bugged" kill way back in the day, which went to a hunter.

I'm still waiting for mine. Hopefully it will drop tonight.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen

 

Raux

I don't currently have a WWS of the fights I'm about to refer to, but we had two rogues, who generally run within 5% of each other(they are both full combat, swords), but that gap ever since one got the trophy has significantly widened mostly due to a moderate increase in CP generation via Combat Potency procs. They have the exact same weapons, VERY similar PvE gear, and have always been toe to toe, yet one is now producing upwards of 10% more overall raid damage due to that trinket.

 

Cloak-SH

I just want to emphasize this, Hit is great and all but you really need to be smart about your gear decisions (or simply use the spreadsheet and look at all the pretty numbers).

Getting hit capped simply because everyone is doing it or because you think you should is quite wrong. I had one rogue show me his gear and exclaim that now that he was hit capped he was going to do SOOO much more dmg, relevant here because he had taken off his DST for a DFT for the last few points of hit rating. Needless to say I yelled at him for about 10 minutes before he got over the whole ideology of needing to be hit capped.

Currently im trying to maintain about 22.5% hit for the somewhat rare occaisions that we do utilize a moonkin in raids. Our guild is quite big and we use a bidding system for loot, meaning that I dont have the opportunity to pick up spare sets of gear and really dont want to gem my main dps gear solely hit which is pretty much unnecessary for grinding/questing.

Back on topic - Our guild has also gotten just the one DST and we do Gruul/Mag only when we have no other options <missing essential personnel for specific fights etc> for additional anecdotal evidence I really really love my trinket, it makes me happy.

It really is a shame that something so good is going to become even harder to get for each and every rogue. When asked how good it really is I always reply the same, "I'm going to continue to use it until i'm lvl 80."

Also /wave to the lil gnome rogue from shattered hand. I dont think i've ever seen you around, ill be lookin

 

Tinu

The bread winner for a combat specced rogue is white damage. That is not to say that the haste effect won't generate extra energy procs, and thus in turn, more specials and CP generation, however, the separation in damage is a consequence of the impact on white damage.

 

Wodahs

No, the best gloves drop off any off the main bosses, minus domo/rag.

 

Ounce

My reason for asking how beneficial this item is for each class is not to say that some deserve it and some don't; obviously if scarcity weren't an issue, anyone who wanted it should get it. The point is that some guilds use a loot council, and that loot council makes decisions on who gets gear for a variety of reasons.

It's an absolutely valid question to try to figure out exactly how good it is for each class. If it were the best trinket in the game for both combat rogues and enhancement shaman, with equivalent dps upgrades for each, then the loot council would take into account other factors as well. What other trinkets are available or will soon be available to each class? What is the raid attendance of each member? How much has each player done on their own to improve personal dps?

Conversations such as these CAN turn into misinformation fests and name-calling, but that definitely doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile to attempt to determine just exactly what the impact is to each class. As a rogue, I see it as a responsibility to find out what items are upgrades for me, and attempt to quantify them (using great tools such as the rogue dps spreadsheet). That way, I feel confident passing minor upgrades for myself to other players who benefit more from them.

I could simply choose to say "this is the best trinket in the game right now for a rogue by a ton, I should get it." I think that would be greedy and immature. Instead, I want to find out how good it is for other classes before I make any statement on it.

 

◊ Kaubel

Why is there an off-topic discussion about who drops what in MC?

 

pillz

This sentence kinda stood out for me, the threat dumping abilities that some classes get cant be matched unless a warrior or shaman kill themselves during a fight or you have unbelievable threat generation on your tank. Our last morogrim kill had a rogue and a warrior at 108ish% threat at the end according to omen and the difference in damage is pretty big.

Wow Web Stats

 

Sebudai

I wouldn't loot this over a veteran, high playtime rogue/dps warrior(maybe an arms spec warrior, I'm not sure how good haste is for them.) Aslong as they're showing up roughly as often as I do, playing roughly as well as I am, and have been in the guild long enough to be 'trusted', the guild benefits more by giving it to them. A benefit to my guild is a benefit to me. DST is ridiculous enough to justifiably give priority on it to 'real' dps classes.

I think the guild would benefit more from me having this over say a hunter or feral druid though.

DST is completely overpowered and I hope it gets nerfed. Gruul should not be dropping the 'best' anything, or even close to it.

 

◊ Shaker

I donno, Neltharion's Tear is probably the longest lived trinket I can think of. End of BWL all the way through to what... Mag's trinket?