I am one of the 2 main healers of one of my guild's Karazhan team. Until 2 days ago I was always using the Moonglade shoulders and robe for the 2-piece bonus (rejuvenation spells grant 35 dodge rating), and I didn't have anything else better to wear anyways.
On our last Curator kill, I got new shoulders (Pauldrons of the Solace-giver) which, given the fact that I want to improve my mana regen, are significantly better than the Moonglade ones. Furthermore, for all the other slots but the chestpiece I have better equipment than the corresponding Moonglade piece.
What I would like to know is in which fights would it be better to gimp my mana regen and + healing to give the bonus to the tanks and in which ones is it unnecessary. I know that 35 dodge rating is quite a lot and that our tanks do notice the difference but I really don't see myself wearing 2 blue pieces forever only for the set bonus.
We are currently on our 1st tries on Aran and we're entering Gruul's Lair for the 1st time on Wednesday.
Is it not 19 rating = 1% dodge at 70? So it's 1.84%. It seems nice enough if it were a set bonus on half decent gear.
It probably has more value with a paladin tank vs a boss if they haven't quite filled up their combat table yet and still have a small chance to be crushed. This could reduce their chance to be crushed by almost 2%, right? It might also allow them to switch out some avoidance gear for more stamina if they know you'll keep rejuv up.
Yes that's the thing exactly, one of our 2 MT is a paladin and he likes that bonus very much. But, in a 10-man raid in which I'm main healing and in which I sometimes have mana regen problems, I'm wondering which one would be more valuable: the set bonus or more mana regen/healing capability.
My guess was that it might be worth it on Prince where avoidance is key. But personnally i'm intrigued on 25 mans. In a 25 mans if you have 2-3 druids healing with 2 pieces of moonglade
That's 3.68% or 5.52% (if 3 are healing) more dodge. So on stuff like hydross?
Moonglade Shoulders
Binds when picked up
Shoulder Leather
219 Armor
+13 Strength
+12 Agility
+18 Stamina
+19 Intellect
+18 Spirit
Red Socket
Red Socket
Socket Bonus: +3 Intellect
Durability 60 / 60
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 29.
socket with 2 times:
Royal Nightseye
+9 Healing Spells and +2 Mana every 5 seconds
versus
Pauldrons of the Solace-Giver
Binds when picked up
Shoulder Cloth
127 Armor
+25 Intellect
+20 Spirit
Durability 60 / 60
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 51.
Equip: Restores 9 mana per 5 sec.
*************
+18 Stamina
+22 Intellect
+18 Spirit
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 47.
Equip: Restores 4 mana per 5 sec.
versus
+25 Intellect
+20 Spirit
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 51.
Equip: Restores 9 mana per 5 sec.
In this case I wouldn't replace them just yet, with decent gems it doesn't make a large difference.
An extra buff to the tank is always nice.. especially since you can have it on 2 tanks simultaneously.
Athi, I too have been debating what to do about the 2 piece Moonglade bonus. At just shy of 2% dodge, any tank would be stupid to ignore it on certain encounters. I think for my personal use, I will keep two or three pieces in my bags for quite a while, and if we ever have problems on an encounter where more dodge would help, I'll put them on.
In general though, I will try to replace based on spirit/healing/mp5/int/stam total numbers rather than that set bonus.
I'm using 2 pieces (helm & shoulders) of moonglade when healing, socketed with best blue healing gems. You really need to include best possible blue gems when making item comparisons. So I'm going to need epic replacements for both slots before I can drop the bonus, and the crafted epic leather helm(s) aren't good enough (no sockets). Those 2 pieces of moonglade would actually be pretty damn hot if all that str/agi would be useful healing stats as well.
I think you should prioritize dodge on any boss fight that has some stacking, melee applied debuff. Sunders or some sort of poison. I would suggest your paladin tank also get moroes pocket watch as well, as its great for this sort of thing. Often you just want some extended period of high dodge to get the stacks to fall off.
In my experience, and you'll probably encounter this on Maulgar/Gruul, you need a lot of +heal and MR to be able to spam healing touch for the majority of a fight (HoT will not cut it on a tank and spank in TBC). Not everyone has the benefit of the Razuvious idol I have, so healing touch will chew your mana up even if you downrank (I use rank 8 for spam).
In other words, upgrade to more MP/5 and spirit and +heal and you will have to do less overall healing, and the fights you will have soon won't really benefit much from the 1.5% dodge. On Gruul and Prince, healer spots are at a premium so the healers they are filled with need to be max'ed out in terms of effecitveness. Gimping your +heal, mana pool, and MP/5 in order to give the tank an occasional buff on a spell you won't be using the entire time, seems excessive to me. Grab the lifewarden's BP, use your Kara shoulders, and worry about bumping your +heal. Priests will be helping the tank more with their 25% armor increase anyhow, and if you aren't healing touch spamming on Gruul or Prince, chances are you have too many healers in the group :-)
My guess was that it might be worth it on Prince where avoidance is key. But personnally i'm intrigued on 25 mans. In a 25 mans if you have 2-3 druids healing with 2 pieces of moonglade
That's 3.68% or 5.52% (if 3 are healing) more dodge. So on stuff like hydross?
My guild actually only has one druid with moonglade, so I'm curious if they actually stack. If they do, this opens up a whole new realm (and required bag space) for me.
My guild actually only has one druid with moonglade, so I'm curious if they actually stack. If they do, this opens up a whole new realm (and required bag space) for me.
If they do stack, and given that you generally have at least one Feral in addition to healing Druids in a 25-man you could potentially get it stacked 4 times easily by persuading Feral dps to wear 2-piece, shift out and rejuve the tank. That would seem a tad overpowered (and therefore definitely worth investigation ) especially bearing in mind previous conversations about dodge/agi-stacking
I'm not being serious now but, is it only me seeing 24 druids + a tank in a 25man raid? +44.16% dodge from only their rejuvs seems crazy.
No, but putting it to use while having 2-3 druids in a raid? I actually do see a "3p transc/stormrage" thing comming up here.
[04:04:29] <Malan> Kaubel just laid the smack down in the the blizzcon thread
[04:05:07] <Kaubel> fucking idiots. i need to go on a banning rampage and put things right once and for all.
[04:05:20] <Kaubel> our forums are infested with pussy.
Seeing as my guilds MT has ~25% dodge and ~16% parry, and I'd guess -6% chance to get hit(unbuffed).
Adding another 44.16% dodge(Assuming you would have a 25man raid with 24druids with the setbonus) would bring him closer to 90% avoidance, which would be insane, indeed.
Last edited by ikillyouheal : 03/28/07 at 6:15 AM.
Reason: Armory Link
[04:04:29] <Malan> Kaubel just laid the smack down in the the blizzcon thread
[04:05:07] <Kaubel> fucking idiots. i need to go on a banning rampage and put things right once and for all.
[04:05:20] <Kaubel> our forums are infested with pussy.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. But my point wasnt how good it would be on 2-3 druids, more like how amazing it would be to stack up on in a large scale.
[04:04:29] <Malan> Kaubel just laid the smack down in the the blizzcon thread
[04:05:07] <Kaubel> fucking idiots. i need to go on a banning rampage and put things right once and for all.
[04:05:20] <Kaubel> our forums are infested with pussy.
I honestly can't believe that people are considering that set as a viable choice for any serious 25 man raid. No offense intended really, but it just won't cut it. It's healing power bonus is bad and most of all its "staying power" is bad. A 35 dodge rating won't save your tank getting spiked down to hell by a boss ability or a nasty hit, more than rarely. Tier 4 is vastly superior to Moonglade in every possible aspect, healing wise that is, including but not limited to set bonuses that can easily be argued, outperform t5 as well in its current incarnation.
In addition there are many, many premium blues and some epics from normal 5-man instances/Karazhan that can be used in several slots instead of moonglade pieces (off the top of my head, raiments of natures breath, curator shoulders, just to name a few) and will have a far greater impact overall. Moonglade is, for the most part, a hybrid set directed towards healing but still fails even worse than Genesis did, when it comes to heavy endurance fights, it's only redeeming feature being the sockets.
P.S : I also don't see how you can fit more than 2 healing druids in a 25-man raid and continue to maintain class balance, unless of course you are low on priests/shamans/palas.
P.S : I also don't see how you can fit more than 2 healing druids in a 25-man raid and continue to maintain class balance, unless of course you are low on priests/shamans/palas.
Well, many Horde guilds are short on Palis still - we had one in raid last night for Gruul and only 2 decently equipped Palis overall. But yes, point taken.
I'm not being serious now but, is it only me seeing 24 druids + a tank in a 25man raid? +44.16% dodge from only their rejuvs seems crazy.
No, but putting it to use while having 2-3 druids in a raid? I actually do see a "3p transc/stormrage" thing comming up here.
IIRC, I managed to get a rogue up to around 60% dodge at level 60; I wonder if it'd be possible, with sufficient druids, to pump someone over 100% dodge continuously... and what the end result would be.
edit: I don't mean >100% avoidance. I mean >100% dodge. That might actually allow for some reverse-engineering of combat mechanics regarding dodge/parry precedence, and would allow for strong confirmation/denial of some of the two roll/one roll arguments in melee, although those arguments are fairly well supported at this point.
Last edited by Kalman : 03/28/07 at 8:29 AM.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
IIRC, I managed to get a rogue up to around 60% dodge at level 60; I wonder if it'd be possible, with sufficient druids, to pump someone over 100% dodge continuously... and what the end result would be.
My thoughts exactly.
[04:04:29] <Malan> Kaubel just laid the smack down in the the blizzcon thread
[04:05:07] <Kaubel> fucking idiots. i need to go on a banning rampage and put things right once and for all.
[04:05:20] <Kaubel> our forums are infested with pussy.
IIRC, I managed to get a rogue up to around 60% dodge at level 60; I wonder if it'd be possible, with sufficient druids, to pump someone over 100% dodge continuously... and what the end result would be.
I could do it with 8 Rejuvs, and a GoA totem with a Paladin for Kings and a Priest for Fort on standby to get 100% avoidance (6% miss in there) and still break 12k health. The gear requirement is a bit silly, requiring a good number of the BoE Blues from the rarespawns that are "Of Agility" and "Of the Monkey" as well as a Heart of Hakkar. But it can be done. It's a long standing project of mine, in fact I'm only 4 items away now (I think)
The dodge bonus is most likely an aura effect that's not going to stack, no different than set bonuses off different sets... Off to thottbot to look for it I guess.
e: nevermind, someone up the thread tested it and I missed the post. They stack
I could do it with 8 Rejuvs, and a GoA totem with a Paladin for Kings and a Priest for Fort on standby to get 100% avoidance (6% miss in there) and still break 12k health. The gear requirement is a bit silly, requiring a good number of the BoE Blues from the rarespawns that are "Of Agility" and "Of the Monkey" as well as a Heart of Hakkar. But it can be done. It's a long standing project of mine, in fact I'm only 4 items away now (I think)
100% avoidance is interesting; 100% of a specific type of avoidance is more interesting.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
03/27/07, 11:51 AM
) especially bearing in mind previous conversations about dodge/agi-stacking
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