Irreplacable Items - Page 11

Shavnir · 04/04/07, 3:32 PM

^^ EDIT : I think his point was in general he can pump out more damage with agony than shadows or elements would boost. Which in most 5 man situations, and some 10 mans is probably the case.

So reading through the thread I guess getting that lifegiving and styleen's in two or three runs was worth it.

I think a lot of these items are a change in mentality between vanilla WoW and TBC, notably the availability of hit / spell hit and trinket theory (ring slot vs. interesting item).

Oth · 04/04/07, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Pyrul

http://www.thottbot.com/s27228

http://www.thottbot.com/s27229

So you're the only frost, fire, and arcane damage dealer also?

You didn't really think that through.

EDIT:

-20 resist on something that has the resists is about 5% average damage gained, maybe a bit less at 70.

So in a 5-man encounter I can lose 120DPS and get 10% on whatever else I cast (hint, it's < 120DPS), or keep the 120DPS and also get 5% more damage. Hmm.

If I were a destruction lock with a fire mage, it might be a different story on a 5-man boss, but that's the only time. At 10 it depends on the number of casters.

And, yes, I count myself extremely lucky to have picked up Neltharion's Tear during our BWL stuff. Getting that and Mish'undare (both, now that I think about it, on silent auction!) were probably some of my luckiest wins back when I was raiding.

Necrotoid · 04/04/07, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Shavnir

^^ EDIT : I think his point was in general he can pump out more damage with agony than shadows or elements would boost.

In that case warlocks 1 and 2 wouldn't use CoS / CoE. No one uses curses that put out less damage. The point that warlock 3+ bring more dmg to the raid is still void.

Pyrul · 04/04/07, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Oth

You didn't really think that through.

On second look no I didn't. PvP doesn't even cross my mind these days.

CheshireCat · 04/04/07, 3:48 PM

Realize that, for CoS/CoE to be worthwhile, the combined damage being dealt against that mob by the two affected elements has to be 10 times as big as the damage that CoA/CoD dishes out. There's a baseline opportunity cost of that much damage.

For a well-geared warlock, that gets to be a lot to expect in a 5-man.

Nezralix · 04/04/07, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by CheshireCat

Realize that, for CoS/CoE to be worthwhile, the combined damage being dealt against that mob by the two affected elements has to be 10 times as big as the damage that CoA/CoD dishes out. There's a baseline opportunity cost of that much damage.

For a well-geared warlock, that gets to be a lot to expect in a 5-man.

Don't forget the cost of a couple of resisted shadow bolts.

Oth · 04/04/07, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by Necrotoid

In that case warlocks 1 and 2 wouldn't use CoS / CoE. No one uses curses that put out less damage. The point that warlock 3+ bring more dmg to the raid is still void.

My point was that when I'm warlock *1*, I would use CoA unless circumstances were highly stacked in either my favor with CoS/CoE or there were a lot of mages in my group (at least three). In a 5-man, this simply doesn't happen. It's unlikely in 10-mans, but of course resistance or CoR would go up for boss fights on those. 25-mans are not really a question.

CheshireCat · 04/04/07, 3:56 PM

True, CoS/CoE gets more valuable in cases where the mob has base resistances. I'm still fairly curious about how common that is, and haven't seen much good data.

Oth · 04/04/07, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by CheshireCat

True, CoS/CoE gets more valuable in cases where the mob has base resistances. I'm still fairly curious about how common that is, and haven't seen much good data.

It isn't very common at all except for either bosses, certain elites, or certain specific mobs that you'd 'expect' to have resistances (here I'm thinking of those particular mobs in the Arcatraz, maybe the sentries?).

Necrotoid · 04/04/07, 4:03 PM

This just got silly. Let me sum up so the discussion so it can be ended and go back to items.

- A warlock will not use an amplification curse unless the mob has significant resists or the group is putting out 80k + dmg a minute in that element.
- The 3rd warlock to a 25 man group contributes less raid damage because they can only use CoA / CoD. The CoS / CoE warlocks contribute more raid damage through the utility curses, or else they would not use them.

Just to be absolutely clear: Warlocks 3+ contribute less raid damage.

weet · 04/04/07, 4:14 PM

Sorry to continue the derail, but ua/bane warlocks actually do more damage putting up CoS than using CoA simply by themselves if they have malediction. Testable with the warlock spreadsheet in the class discussion forum - and my own experience indicated this on Dr. Boom also.

Keline · 04/04/07, 4:23 PM

Is Dr.Boom the new DPS benchmark mob?

Just to be absolutely clear: Warlocks 3+ contribute less raid damage.

What happened to CoR?

• Hamlet · 04/04/07, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Necrotoid

This just got silly. Let me sum up so the discussion so it can be ended and go back to items.

- A warlock will not use an amplification curse unless the mob has significant resists or the group is putting out 80k + dmg a minute in that element.
- The 3rd warlock to a 25 man group contributes less raid damage because they can only use CoA / CoD. The CoS / CoE warlocks contribute more raid damage through the utility curses, or else they would not use them.

Just to be absolutely clear: Warlocks 3+ contribute less raid damage.

CoS/CoE/CoR?

Fizwidget · 04/04/07, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by weet

Sorry to continue the derail, but ua/bane warlocks actually do more damage putting up CoS than using CoA simply by themselves if they have malediction. Testable with the warlock spreadsheet in the class discussion forum - and my own experience indicated this on Dr. Boom also.

I have observed this, however, I have found this only to be true IF you are 41/0/10+10 AND you skipped Imp CoA/Amp Curse, AND you manage to get enough +shadow over +spell/fire along with 3/3 malediction that the end result is Immolate is less DPCT than any other DoT or SB (so that you have 100% shadow in a logical cast cycle). This is barely possible with the kara neck, 3/3 frozen shadow, +shadow Badge reward off-hand, Soulfrost enchant, and a 68-70 green or two (say, cape and wand) "of Shadow Wrath."

weet · 04/04/07, 4:41 PM

I had imp CoA and Amplify Curse, at least 190 (unsure if i had soulfrost at the time) pure +shadow and used immolate, it was still more damage.