Edit: THIS IS NOT ABOUT DKP FOR KARAZHAN. THIS IS ABOUT ATTENDANCE.

We recently had an issue where I wanted to look over member attendance, clicked on someone's personal page for eqDKP, and got an abyssmially low percentage. Then I thought to myself - well, since this person's attendence is believed to be a problem, let's check someone with "good" attendence and see their percentage. Also... very... low. Because if you're attending Karazhan East, you're not attending Karazhan West (our nominclature to avoid the "A" team and the "B" team).

So I was sort of curious what... best... practices... other guilds are doing in order to still have meaningful attendence percentages. Our complications are that Karazhan East and Karazhan West may not run on the same night. Just to pencil in, since we're not using a mod to parse in everything (tales of them exploding and losing the night's data has made me wary), we enter in an event like "Karazhan - Midnight" Note: "Up through Curator", apply a one time point bonus of the value of all the bosses slain in that run, and then charge out all the items. Teams aren't static (if you're East one week, you may be West the next), so making a "Karazhan East" event and tracking that individually doesn't wash, either.

20+ individual adjustments a night isn't an appealing option, either. Any thoughts? Am I missing something obvious?

Don't run DKP in Kara if it is complicating things too much for you, especially since you are trying to mix your "A" and "B" team so heavily. Just stick with some basic ground rules to make sure you aren't having people get their second T4 gloves/helm when others need their first still and /random the entire place. When you start on Grull and Mag, then evaluate whether and how you want to work a DKP system since you will hopefully be with just one team.

Some people in my guild were interested in attempting dkp for Karazhan, but I kept coming up with messy scenarios until they stopped coming up with solutions.

Even though it has pieces of T4, it's a real mess to have it on the same system as the rest of the pieces. If I were you, I'd take it off dkp. If you don't want to do that, at least break it off into its own system. That'll fix your attendence percentages and keep any problems it causes contained.

Honestly, when most items are only wanted by a single person on the run, and even the hottest items aren't wanted by more than 3-4, a dkp system just doesn't make much sense.

Don't do DKP for Karazhan.

My old guild kicked around the idea. We decided that in the worst case, 4 people would be vying for the same piece of loot. On average though, only 1-2 people are interested in an item that drops. The headache and overhead of DKP with such a small pool just wouldn't be worth it. It would essentially come down to whether or not the item dropped on your run, not whether or not you had enough DKP saved up to win it.

Besides, 10 people is a relatively easy group to field. There's no reason to think that Karazhan won't be run exhaustively, ensuring that most people will get what they want in the long run, no matter the loot system behind it.

When we started Karazhan we had been discussing using DKP for drops, but in the end have done as others in this thread have stated: Just /roll between the classes that can use it. This has worked very well, and simplifies the raid leading process quite a lot.

However, one thing that it sounds like we do differently is that we do actually keep track of all the Karazhan drops and who gets them in EQDKP. We then use this information to help balance who to take on raids, as an attempt to be "fair" (allowing people who have gotten less loot more of a chance to go on raids in order to get loot). Of course class balance takes precedence, but for cases when it's Rogue X vs. Rogue Y we'll normally let the amount of loot determine which of them goes.

and everyone addresses loot assignment. We /random for everything except the tier loot (and we even random for that, it's just a weighted roll). Not that it matters, but we give one point per kill (wildly inflationary), so we have some vague attendance metric for weighting rolls on tier loot (and it carries well into Gruul and Magtheridon).

All of that is besides the point - I need a meaningful attendance report, and throwing out DKP doesn't change that. Also, I suspect, it isn't that uncommon a need. What with the bulk of WoW raids either struggling with Moroes or Curator, "Just wait for SSC," is no answer.

We actually decided against DKP in karazhan... We learned our mistake when we tried DKP for ZG.

Now it's loot council. I thought it was going to be an admin nightmare, but it has actually worked out really well.

if you run two and exactly two kara raids, could you track kara attendance sepperately from anything else you track, and then just double the reported kara attendance %?

Yeah you would just need two queries for all of your total attendance functions, one for raids excluding all karaz raids, and one for all karaz raids. Then you divide the count from the Karaz query by 2, and add the two values together to get the total raids value. Then you just do attended raids into total raids.

IE I've attended 3 out of 6 Karaz Raids, and 5 Gruul Raids.
Query 1 (Modified to get count for raids excluding "Karazhan - East" and "Karazhan - West") gets 5 total non Karaz raids.
Query 2 (Only checks raids called "Karazhan - East" and "Karazhan - West") gets 6 total Karaz raids divided by two so 3.
Query 3 which remains unchanged just gets the total number of attended raids, 8.
Then you make the % formula do "Query3/(Query 1 + Query 2)" in this case 8/8 so I would have 100% attendance.

The code gets a bit tricky for it, but it is very doable. It will screw up if you do not put in two Karaz raids every time you do Karaz though.

I'm just tracking total Karazhan raids attended -- since we're not doing anything other than Karazhan right now, this works fine. If we were, I would probably go do a Google spreadsheet; I used one for tracking MC attendance for a really long time and it wasn't too painful.

That's how we did it even in the old world. Due to variable attendance, lack of interest in ZG/AQ20 runs for "too few epics", we ended up doing a big pool. All the points over the week are pooled, and distributed at the end of the week. Attendance to one MC night equals attendance to one BWL night equals attendance to one ZG night (this is zero sum DKP). And yes, the people on standby count, assuming they were there at the start of the raid, and still online at the end.