Update from Tigole on 2.1 - Page 37

Fres · 04/10/07, 6:26 PM

I wonder how people would feel about Gruul if they had toned down the growth damage or his hp only, and left shatter at the same (lethal) levels. That, in my opinion, would be VERY C'thun-esque in tuning, which is probably why they opted for full range of nerfs to the encounter. It's not fair to assume that every guild that wants to try 25-man BC content is going to be able to display that level of coordination.

I think his difficulty is really appropriate now.

♦ Praetorian · 04/10/07, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Trouble

Well admittedly you are required to have rounded out balance of relatively skillful individuals. When I say skillful I mean whatever it takes in skill level to kill Gruul, you need your dps to be as skilled as your healers to be as skilled as your tanks. Gone are the days of MC and some BWL where you need tanks (to a degree) and healers with a clue and a bunch of button mashing monkey dps. I don't think that's a bad a thing, having been a healer for a year, I say BMM (button mashing monkeys) can go to hell.

Basically. From the application info I posted above:

Understand that DPS classes are more important in TBC than they ever have been before. It used to be that if you had a good tank and some good healers to keep that tank alive, all that DPS meant was how long it took for the boss to die. No longer.

That's not really a bad thing. I mean, think back to MC through AQ40, and large parts of Naxx. If you had a terrible tank, you were going to wipe. If your healers sucked, you were going to wipe. If your DPS sucked, you had longer clears.

TBC has just spread responsibility more evenly.

duostrike · 04/10/07, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Fres

I wonder how people would feel about Gruul if they had toned down the growth damage or his hp only, and left shatter at the same (lethal) levels. That, in my opinion, would be VERY C'thun-esque in tuning

He feels very C'thun-esque right now. If you get knocked near someone and can't get away before shatter it's pretty close to a eyebeam chain between two people. Probably won't kill you. However, if 3 or more get chained/shattered you still will die in C'thun and in current Gruul.

Differences are that you can't control your distance from each other fully to avoid chaining entirely like you could in C'thun. However, that is balanced with a bit lower shatter damage than chaining damage and the fact that you can hurt multiple people for differing amounts.

Good guilds make C'thun look easy just like good guilds make Gruul look easy. The similarities in personal responsibility are pretty close in the current Gruul implementation. A little less on the interrupt front but everyone still needs to pay attention.

Quigon · 04/10/07, 6:53 PM

No one should ever die in the current form of Gruul's shatter. Ever. Even worst case scenarios we're talking are survivable... unless your setup pre-shatter is ass.

Natural · 04/10/07, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Cireena

our average guild will not be killing Gruul without pots in this expansion with the current state of things.

Our server had a ~10-man guild + pug kill Gruul a couple weeks ago. I guess it depends on your server.

Anias · 04/10/07, 6:55 PM

Originally Posted by duostrike

Good guilds make C'thun look easy just like good guilds make Gruul look easy. The similarities in personal responsibility are pretty close in the current Gruul implementation. A little less on the interrupt front but everyone still needs to pay attention.

C'thun is still far far cooler than gruul.

Cybelirrae · 04/10/07, 6:55 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Basically. From the application info I posted above:

That's not really a bad thing. I mean, think back to MC through AQ40, and large parts of Naxx. If you had a terrible tank, you were going to wipe. If your healers sucked, you were going to wipe. If your DPS sucked, you had longer clears.

TBC has just spread responsibility more evenly.

I agree, that it is not a bad thing. Maybe it is b/c of my class, but I love the DPS tests in the raid game. That is why I am not sure of the reason that a lot of people have been speaking about hating Hydross so much. I mean sure he is difficult and his loot is pretty meh (but I do like my ring) but it is pretty exhilerating to me to be able to get him down before the doomsday enrage. People like to say rogues are 2-button monkeys (and lets be honest most are) but some rogues (like Kalman and Pf and others) that really focused on the precise cycles to squeeze out your optimal dps show otherwise, and it is in encounters like Hydross that you want guys like that on your team.

Cireena · 04/10/07, 7:02 PM

Natural - I am sure it depends on the server. My server never managed to do anything other than guild only Ony kills. The top guilds laughed at teh idea of anyone there PuG'ing her. We never reached a point were we could reliably kill her with less than 30. So a PuG on Gruul not likely to ever happen here.

Not to mention we were hosting MC runs for people to get gear if that gives you an idea of our server. Where other servers were selling spots in BWL and AQ40, we were doing it with MC.

duostrike · 04/10/07, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by Anias

C'thun is still far far cooler than gruul.

I entirely agree with coolness factor. However, I think there is a large disconnect between guilds that did all of AQ40 and especially C'thun which showed people how to move around and those who haven't and are just becoming comfortable with those concepts.