A thread in R&D bearing a similar name to this one caught my eye the other day. It got my mind wondering. Can anything ever beat the feel of creating one's first character (in my case a Night Elf Hunter), and the feeling of awe that it inspires? Or the sense of epic adventure you experience when you zone into Molten Core for the first time and are confronted with two huge Molten Giants?

I'm already noticing a theme developing; I've used the word "first" twice already, which brings me to my first point. Is there a limit to the number of things Blizzard can introduce that still gives us the same "wow" factor as that first trash pull in MC? Is this concept in itself the limiting factor in the lifetime of a RPG - eventually the developer runs out of new stuff to excite us? If I may digress ever so slightly. I won't deny the feeling of awe as I ran through the Dark Portal for the first time. And yes, the sky in Hellfire Penisula is awesome. Maybe it was because I knew what was ahead of me - a grind to 70 (I say grind - I do actually enjoy levelling characters), then getting my heroic keys, gearing up and then raiding. Is it the element of the unknown that inspires such awe? I don't think I was alone in knowing pretty much everything that was ahead of me on the road to 70.

Raiding and raid design. Now, I actually love Karazhan. I feel it's perfectly tuned for the level of difficulty it's supposed to represent. No consumables are needed bar Mana Potions/the odd DPS potion. But that's an aside. The instance itself is superbly designed. I particularly like how we start off killing undead horses - nothing very scary or intimidating, and gradually realise the extent to which the demonic corruption has overcome Medivh's old haunt until we end up bringing the corruption to an end by killing Malchezaar.

I think Karazhan encapsulates perfectly how to make an instance "epic" without having to use huge mobs, and indeed have 39 other people with you there. Going back to level 60, I always found Stratholme Baron side to inspire the same feeling. It's a purely subjective, and aestheticly based view, but to me at least, it really is the scenario surrounding the instance and the lore upon which it's based that make me come back for more. I loved AQ40 for this reason, yet wasn't too keen on BWL and MC - sure there were a lot of big mobs to kill, but who cares? Ragnaros and Nefarion and their position in the Warcraft lore was fabricated when WoW was released (the former to a much greater extent) and it all felt a bit cobbled together, although BWL in particular was well-tuned once fully patched.

So I guess what I'm asking, in addition to thread title, what actually gives WoW it's "wow" factor? Is it loot? Art design? Lore? Quests? I, and I'm sure many others would be interested to know.

I had the "Wow" feeling the first time i entered stormwind, during closed beta before release, had it again going to redridge during open beta, and during live going to stranglethorn. And that's about it. Mostly zone design that looks gorgeous.

Note: I've already played EQ, so giant raid bosses don't really impress me. Well.... maybe Ragnaros just because of how he pops up.

I still think the Ragnaros event is the biggest "wow" I've had playing this game. I had chills the first time we summoned him. Never got to do KT personally, but I hear the "event" didn't have nearly the buildup, and thus less of a "wow" factor and more of a "this fight is very well designed, and very fun." IMO every final boss needs to be like Rag, by that I don't mean they have to be summoned by some minion, but a buildup event with a touch of lore, boy do I have some high high hopes for Illidan...

Edit because I digressed a bit from the actual question: I really think that what you said holds some water. The majority of this game is probably playing for moments like the first pull in MC, the first double Fire Lord pull, summoning Rag. It is just a matter of time before there is nothing left that can shock the playerbase into a sense of awe. At this point, we have raiding under our belt, so now the first pull of a zone is now an educated guessing game, we have a good idea how we're going to handle it barring some very surprising mob abilities. Boss fights are going to be a hard thing to wow us with as far as shock value, I mean there were 15 in Naxx, eventually the title of "boss" gets diluted(zones like SSC and TK25 may actually rekindle this, especially if post-fix Vashj, and Kael, remain leagues ahead of the other mobs in the instance). Really the only thing left is to magnify the scope of an encounter through lore, which not everyone reads, so even then not everyone will understand the wow.

Summary: yes, the "wow" in WoW will come to an end eventually, let's enjoy it while there's some left =]

Well, WoW may still retain the "wow factor" without the players feeling it. In a general sense, crack always retains its potency, but overuse still makes individuals resistant to its charms. No matter how great a game WoW is, people will eventually become bored with it and require ever greater stimulation, which eventually becomes impossible. Some of my friends who played EQ tried WoW and freely admit it's a far better game, but they pretty much already have their lifetime fix of MMORPGs and can't sustain interest.

I think Blizzard continues to do a good job but that doesn't change the fact that you've seen a lot and less and less will impress you.

Exactly.

No matter what they do I will never have as much fun in wow as I had in Beta and my first UBRS clears and MC raids. It was just magical.

No matter how impressive and well tuned (as if) a new dungeon is I wont get the same feeling. To get that feeling you need to be a noob, just exploring the game. Atleast thats how it works for me.

Thats why I most likely will check out alot of other MMOs. I dont have any high hopes of them being better games then wow. I just hope I will get the pleasure of being a noob once more.

Despite having it spoiled since beta, Durnholde was still a wow moment for me. They put a lot of effort into that zone...they didn't have to construct a past version of Southshore, but they did and it was really impressive.

When I recently entered SSC for the first time, it was a huge 'wow' moment. There was only 3 of us though and we didn't try to kill anything (other then the lurker below :P), but the first impression was awesome.

Once blizz fixes the place to be actually a decent and fun raiding zone, I am sure wow will have that 'wow' feeling for me for at least a while.

Back in Vanilla when I got bored of BWL, I spend a few weeks orso exploring the world. Old caverns of time, Hyjal, old AQ, deadmines secret, etc. Nearly everyone of those places had a 'wow' moment, since they where new for me at that time. At that time it was the only thing I actually enjoyed about the game.

I generally experience multiple nerdgasms over the simplest things in WoW--especially if it pertains to War2 or War3 lore. Basically, anything to do with old characters and locales (CoT, Magtheridon being visible from Blood Furnace, Hyjal, etc) gets me going.

Seeing Auchindoun and the Bone Wastes is also breathtaking every time I go through the area--It's really a morbidly beautiful area, with a gorgeous sunset and bone dragons flying around. I really got a sense of "Wow, something fucked up happened here", which was probably what they were going for. It's also my favorite outdoor battleground, when I'm actually around to see the towers unlock.

I also really love Karazhan; very atmospheric, and I had an ear-to-ear grin during the Opera event, and Aran's voicework was very, very impressive.

Of course, there's the classic "Wow" moments as well, like Ragnaros and Nefarian's respective, spectacular introductions.

I'm really hoping that places like SSC and TK deliver the same kind of "oh shit we're fucked" feeling that washes over me the first time I see someone that's actually important to fight. Gruul certainly didn't deliver in that respect, though I suspect Magtheridon might.

I think it gets harder and harder to produce 'wow' moments the older the game becomes. The only real 'oh shit this is cool'-moment I have had in Outland so far is when I walked down the stair of destiny. First you see the legion charging and then the pit commander, while you hear that epic feeling music strip. It is quite obvious that Blizzard tried very hard to achieve this epic feeling when you entered the Dark Portal for the first time.

Vanilla WoW had a lot more of these moments, and it was way easier for Blizz to produce moments like these back then. Just stepping inside Molten Core for the first time was awesome, and spawning Ragnaros for the first time was extremely cool, same thing the first time we survived phase 1 Nefarian and you saw him land while spraying the entire room with flame.

In the beginning I was very easy to impress, but now I mostly get the wow feeling when there is a lot of lore involved, killing npc's that played a major part in the previous WarCraft games, for example.

So for the WoW moments people have listed, like Rag, Nefarion. Alot of these moments are going to be missed by new players, as they'll just level straight past MC, BWL, etc. Would all you vets of WoW, say that people should go back, and take a look at the old content, to see those WoW moments?

I mean how many people are going to ever do UBRS again? Their first raid. Or see Rag summoned.

Not as many as I believe should really.

Entering Zangarmarsh and seeing the first fen strider fall, entering Nagrand, entering any TK 5-man. Seeing Murmur first time. First epic flight mount ride. All legit "wow" moments for me. Also area/architecture past Curator...

Fun moments, first little red riding hood run

In WoW Classic I had a bunch of wow moments
- Entering the Valley of Heroes in Stormwind, just wow, it's still one of my favorite spots in the game.
- Ragnaros was a wow moment definately.
- Onyxia's flight phase, something they didn't do again with a dragon until Sapphiron.
- Entering Western Plaguelands from Alterac was also a wow moment for me, because it was the first time I saw those ?? mobs as a lowbie hehe. From a lore-stand point I knew the location, and what it was, the aftermath of the 3rd war, it was very cool.
- Entering Stratholme, the aftermath of what Arthas did there was awesome.
- Nefarian and all of BWL was nicely done, it seemed to countinue the entire Blackrock story very well, from the battle of rend, Onyxia, the attunements, etc.
- The Twin Emperors was a wow moment, when you walk into their lair and that giant eye just looks over you and fades, then the dialog between the brothers starts, and the fight itself was just fun.
- The dialog between the 4 Horsemen and the 4 Horsemen themselves.
- Sapphiron's reanimation.

BC has much much fewer, and it's a shame because it's like they're not even trying.

- The entire Blood Elf Starting areas leading up to the killing Dar'Khan the traitor is very very well done. The Blood Elf zone makes the Drenaei one look like a joke.
- When you enter Outland, the portal and the demons at it are cool, I was impressed, alliance side, Honor Hold is awesome, it's what you'd expect of surviving humans in Outland, and Danath is there.
- Blood Furnace when you hear Magtheridon the first time, is awesome, as well as how you can see through the floor and look at him chained up.
- Nagrand Horde side I'm sure is awesome, leading up to Thrall arriving.
- Shadowmoon Valley is cool the first time you see it, and the Wildhammer base, again it's what you expect of the survivers.
- Tempest Keep up close on a flying mount is jaw droping, Netherstorm is a very nice zone in general. Lots of eye-candy.

Disappointments are as follows:
- Danath/Khadgar/Kurdran, Blood Elf City leaders including Lor'themar Theron have no unique voices
- Alot of the raids have no build-up to them. I'm going to kill High King Maulgar/Gruul, but why? Where's the deep questline that leads to this? All I did before hand was help a black dragon. I'm going into Tempest Keep to kill Kael, as alliance, yeah ok, no problem, as Horde has any Blood Elf ever gotten a quest to explain to Lor'themar wtf is going on in Outland? Vashj has build-up from the zone and that's fine and dandy, Illidan has build-up from all of Outland, that's a plus.
- Raiding Zone bosses do not have voices save Magtheridon, this is a problem, 5-man bosses have voices, hell even the level 5 mob at the blood elf starting area had a voice.
- Aside from Magtheridon, none of the raid bosses are nearly as amazing at Ragnaros was, lots of recycled models.
- Speaking of recyled models, recycled armor models are all over the place as well. Armor outside of tiered sets are ugly.
- Tiered sets must get their boots seperately, this leads to some ugly mismatching.
- Etc etc.

Bringing Thrall to Nagrand was very neat. I also love almost all of the environments in Outland - every zone finds a way to be beautiful in some distinct and twisted way (well, except maybe Shadowmoon - it's just kind of green and smokey).

Oh, and what may have been the absolute best moment of levelling was doing the Teribus the Cursed quest - gather the skull-thingies, do the summoning, big swirly magical ritual animation... and then we're waiting around wondering if it's bugged out. And then someone says "Look up." Awesome.

The big worm and the dune references were fun too. The sand gnomes were hilarious the first time but there were a few too many of them, I think.

Karazhan has had a few moments for me. Moroes and Curator I loved and still enjoy for their voice acting. And obviously Aran tops them both - not only is the voice actor amazing but they managed to work his quotes into the encounter such that it doesn't sound unnatural (well, apart from the fact that he's completely mad). Malchezaar, on the other hand, has a good voice but he needs more than two possible infernal-summoning quotes - "You face not Malchezaar alone..." and "All dimensions..." over and over again gets tiresome.

I'm disappointed that none of the 25-person content save for Magtheridon is voice acted. Ah well.

I'd agree that in general we're a lot more jaded now and harder to "wow." Some new models (the plethora of bog beasties, for example, are quite neat) and voice acting would go a long way, however. It really feels like Blizzard ran out of time with their raid game after Karazhan. Hopefully they took their time with Black Temple.

The biggest wow! of the original game was the things already mentioned: Ragnaros appearing, Onyxia flying and entering some key areas of the game (Stormwind, Blackrock Mountain, Stranglethorn Vale). In BC, I haven't experienced anything close to Rag yet (although I don't think it's possible this late), but stuff like Nightbane landing or heck, the view of Shattrath from 300 yards up still gets me going a little bit.

Nightbane appearing behind the hills silhouetted by the full moon is very cool, with the emote "In the distance an ancient being awakens ... " (or something similar).

Then it is immediately ruined by the horrible track his model flys along, jerking and twisting. It's like a bad carnival ride.

Vanilla

First time I saw The Twin Emps
C'thun
Nefarion "LET THE GAMES BEGIN!"
Raganaros gave me jitters.
I loved all of the high level instances - LBRS UBRS, Strat, Scholo all of them.
Getting my TF

TBC

First time through the dark portal.
I liked Maulgar
Auchindoun
A few quests, Teron Gorefiend was a good time.
And, oh yes, I loved chess. I loved Karazhan as a whole.

I think I'll get more wow moments the more I go through the game and get more lore in the instances.

The biggest things that really get me excited is the "tourist" aspect of WoW, where I actually get to visit places in the previous games. Seeing the throne room in Undercity was huge for this, as was entering Orgrimmar for the first time.

In the expansion, going through the portal, and rescuing Thrall were really exciting for me, and I imagine that Hyjal will evoke the same response, as long as Blizzard doesn't blow it

First double Giants (those got old fast, huh?), Ragnaros, Nefarian, Twin Emps, Ouro, C'thun, Grobbulus (hey, he looked cool despite it all :>) and Thaddius were impressive the first time. Thadd could've used some sort of lore buildup to support his voice acting. 4HM and Frostwyrm Lair I only saw on videos.

Seeing Stormwind, some parts of Ashenvale, Duskwood (it looks scarier than Tirisfal), Plaguelands, Ahn'Qiraj (especially AQ20, early AQ40 was very unimpressive) and certain parts of Naxx was impressive. The AQ opening event would've been spectacular if it had been really playable during the heavy spawn waves.

In Outlands the first glimpse at the skybox and burning earth in HFP was cool in addition to the Stair of Destiny 'event' but HFP overall looks quite shitty. Terokkar and Nagrand's vistas were the ones I was impressed with. Liked SMV too but it's not striking like the former two.

I've never really been "wowed" by WoW. I've been able to enjoy playing it though.

There are some really well designed areas in the game. Blackrock Mountain makes go "awesome design" every time I run through there, and there is some good stuff all around the place.

Flying mounts are awesome too, very close to some kind of "wow" element, but tempered by the face they're so good simply because the previous system of getting around was so bad.

I can't believe I left that out. Me personally getting mine wasn't as epic(still very cool though), but when I saw the video of whoever it was that got the US first, with a few hundred people gathered in Silithus to watch the summoning, that was awesome.

Here's my list in case someone actually reads these:

- first zoning in (as an elf in Teldrassil) and realizing that the world is filled with other players (WoW was the first game that I properly played online)
- first trip to Ironforge, i.e. running from Wetlands to Dun Morogh. I was almost afraid of the trip and didn't feel like I was "ready", but another elf asked to come with her.
- levelling in a very good RP guild (back in spring 2005 when the server was a proper RP server). The immersion was there and we had some very nice world pvp raids and events.
- first time SM cathedral, sunken temple and BRD were pretty cool too
- first summon of Ragnaros, first landing of Nefarian, the whole process of Onyxia until first kill and all the other relevant first kills.
- first ZG raids, the place was designed really well
- TBC release and first time through the dark portal
- day 1 of TBC: hellfire was nice as a zone, but I got annoyed with the immaturity and sheer volume of people in hellfire, so I went exploring (literally, hadn't played beta and had no idea what to expect) and discovered a large and impressive-looking city that was totally empty from players (=Shattrath). Same day, riding around Zangarmarsh doing some quests
- first TBC instance run, to Blood furnace.
- first zoning to Nagrand and riding around
- some parts of Karazhan, particularly the first Opera event (big bad wolf)

Generally, levelling first character (=this one) to 60 was pretty nice and the immersion worked. However, after that I felt that the levelling process with alts was just incredibly boring with no immersion whatsoever, hence why I don't have another high level character I didn't actually expect to get the immersion back, but TBC levelling from 60 to around 66 succeeded in that very well. Somewhere around zoning to Blade's edge the immersion got lost however, and the later stage of levelling was mostly just "quest grinding". I didn't even bother going to Shadowmoon until being at 70 for a while. Some shadowmoon quests were really well designed though, so they brought back the "wow feeling" to some extent.