As far as trinkets go, the only time I've really cared is on Morogrim if one of my healers gets Water tombed, I hit the pocket watch and hope it helps some. Granted its again relying on a random factor, I've hit it and dodged 6 hits in a row, or 1. I like the auto blocker actually for trash, the click effect I am fairly sure gets the benefit of Shield mastery. My block value is 525 without it, 785 when I click it so that would indicate it works. My only gripe is how much block value takes up in the budget, I mean its a conditional stat, if you do not block, the stat does nothing for you (but granted, you will block more often than not due to shield block).

I don't see why you would underrate block rating though. It takes a lot less block rating to get 1% block chance than it does to get dodge, and a lot less compared to parry rating, and there are times where you shield block and its normal hit blocked, cleave/whatever instant attack blocked, and you can get crushed on the next hit because shield block isn't up. Or you can block it (more likely than dodging/parrying), and shield block is up for the next series of attacks, and not be crushed. When you do block too, its not an insigificant portion of damage mitigated either, block is good the same way stoneshields/ironshields are good - removing any substantial portion of damage on a hit will help in the long run.

Yes you need 25% shield block to stop crushing blows (assuming you can keep shield block up permanently, which is often not possible on mobs like prince, moroes, just about anything). If you have 70 avoidance (dodge + parry + miss) and 99% shield block chance, you still have a chance of getting crushed.

So basically if you're using pocket watch and you want to know what other trinket you should use it goes like this:

Tanking trash? -> Auto Blocker
Don't have 25% shield block? -> Styleen's
Boss has high "Oh shit" potential? -> LGG
Nothing special? -> Engineering trinket / heroic underbog trinket / whatever you want, there's like a million of them in TBC.

So you've been crushed with shield block active with less than 25% static block? Did you have your back to the mob? Or were you taking a pot at the time?

There were tests done a long long time ago (talking back in MC days when crushing blows were revealed... I say revealed, not introduced since they were always around but the combat log didn't distinguish them) regarding <100% block rate and crushing blows. What makes you think that it doesn't happen? Unless something changed in the combat mechanics that I missed I'm pretty sure it's like it's always been.

As I understand it, combat mechanics work as such (assuming a mob does not have a higher than normal crit rate)

+3 level mob has:

5.6% chance to crit you
4.4% chance to miss you
15% chance to crush you
75% chance to hit you.

Defense will change those crits to hits
Defense will change hits to misses

So with 490 defense you can say a mob has a 10% chance to miss, 15% crush, 75% hit. (this isn't counting the avoidance gained from dodge and parry from +defense)

Dodge, Parry, and Miss only effect hits (not crushes) up until you exceed 85% avoidance.

So basically what I'm saying is, avoidance doesn't reduce crushing blows unless it's super high (into the realm of rogue evasion tanks). It's not like "Well I have 60% avoidance, so naturally a mob will crush me 60% less if I never used shield block"

Am I wrong here? Does someone who's tested combat mechanics have a different understanding?

Yeah, it looks like they snuck in a change at some point which allows paladins to be uncrushable. With 100% total avoidance it appears that you are now crush immune- the outlying cases seem to be related to putting weapons on your back and the like.

It's wierd, but it seems to be what's going on.

edit:
It's possible that Warrior block and Paladin block are a bit different, but I've not seen a single case of it and tests seem to show the opposite.

I guess I need to spend more time in the theorycrafting forums. I must admit I haven't even gone in there since they were created.

As far as Paladins being uncrushable that mostly has to do with their talents and abilities that give them super insane block rating + their avoidance.

I never said it helps you keep up shield block, however in those very common situations of hit, cleave/whatever, then another hit between the shield block cooldown, you are more likely to block than to dodge or parry that third hit, which would prevent a crush. My block percentage is comparatively a lot higher than my dodge or parry, as I am sure most peoples' is. That third hit is the only cause of tank related deaths due to crushing blows I've seen since the expansion has come out, so mitigating that isn't a bad thing.

A block isn't really a tiny amount of damage, not any more. If you get hit for 4000, and block 500 of it, its an additional 12.5% damage off that hit. I wouldn't call that insignificant and over an entire fight is a lot of damage that you did not need to take.

I'm a tad confused on how this works... I've heard that our tanks have gotten a crushing with shield block up, though they could be mistaking it.

Is it such that miss/dodge/parry/block % all combine to knock crush (and as such crit/hit) off the swing roll?

More details! This is new info for me. :]

I can safely say I've never been crushed with shield block up. I can say I've been crushed in the scenario of shield block still being on cooldown. They probably weren't really looking at what happened, its relatively common really to get the first hit in a 5 second period be blocked, a cleave/ms/whatever is blocked, the third hit crushes.

Basically the combined avoidance stats knock crushing off the hit table. 75% block guarantees it will be off the table - assuming of course your dodge/parry/block are > 25% total (which they should be with basically any tanking gear setup).

They could have been facing the wrong way or been taking a pot. The first exposes your back so you can't block. The second causes your shield to be put on your back while you drink, I think.

As a more detailed example, at which point does the avoidance/mitigation from, say, Autoblocker, get outdone by Adamantine Figurine? (or vice-versa) - treating the static stats (33def rating? vs 54 block) separately from the On Use: - 1280 AC vs 200 BV. This is obviously assuming every not completely avoided hit being blocked, and 490 or more defense regardless of trinket selection. For the sake of argument, let's even assume that dodges/parries don't occur at all - 0% base parry, 0% base dodge, 100% block. Then add either 54 (on use 200) BV, or 33 def rating (on use 1280 AC). How hard would a boss have to hit for the AC to outdo the 200BV? Assuming, say, 15.5k AC which is something anyone should be able to attain raid buffed.

I understand a lot of values play into this, but I'm trying to somehow find a black on white reason for using certain trinkets over others in specific situations. I mean, it's obvious in alot of cases as previously stated, but in others that's not *quite* the case. I'm talking mainly from a mitigation/avoidance/survivability point of view here. Picking trinkets for threat generation seems to be a lot more straight forward for some reason.