Proclaimer: I skipped the last 10 pages or so because the thread is just moving too fast, sorry if the discussion's been beaten to death already.
That said, I'll echo Quigon on his crusade to remove flasks. They're just stupidly overpowered and it's a shame that Blizzard has to balance for them. They should not be the norm, they should be the crutch for "weaker" guilds. When I read Nihilum killed C'thun and they had the whole raid flasked, I also laughed, because it was *that* absurd. So what if the top 50 guilds in the world blow thru the content when flasked? Is that really the standard Blizzard should balance against?
Edit: read the note about reducing flask power, good. Hope they'll hit the normal potions too, no consumable should equal two tiers of gear upgrades for a single stat.
Proclaimer: I skipped the last 10 pages or so because the thread is just moving too fast, sorry if the discussion's been beaten to death already.
That said, I'll echo Quigon on his crusade to remove flasks. They're just stupidly overpowered and it's a shame that Blizzard has to balance for them. They should not be the norm, they should be the crutch for "weaker" guilds. When I read Nihilum killed C'thun and they had the whole raid flasked, I also laughed, because it was *that* absurd. So what if the top 50 guilds in the world blow thru the content when flasked? Is that really the standard Blizzard should balance against?
By skipping you missed a lot, flasks are being nerfed Greatly according to Tigole. Hopefully they wont be as bad now.
Or ranting about assembly lines and how this was the only thing we were going to get <3
The difference was I was making an argument and had a reasonably well thought out point about how essentially the initial proposed changes amounted to nothing; rather than a baseless claim that the world was about to end (aka alchemy is now DOA). I also think the assembly line analogy was spot on But I know you're kidding, and I'm being an emo kid even replying eh.
I dropped alchemy for enchanting a while ago, after 3 months of no discoveries I just gave up. I had every single pre-BC recipe at the time too. Most of the alchemy changes are pretty good, however the one that made me die a little inside was the Limited Invulnerability Potion nerf. I guess smart warlocks were occasionally killing rogues and the occasional hunter 'out in the wild' with them and it had to stop.
Or ranting about assembly lines and how this was the only thing we were going to get <3
Cars in space, Moogle. Cars in space.
This is really looking nice. I'm almost as emotional as Quigon at the moment, even though I am a much more "casual raider". (Cleared Kara and Gruul, working on getting 25 attuned for SSC) I went mad with joy when someone in /g mentioned "OMG Tigole just said on EJ flask are getting severely nerfed". Without these changes this would have probably been it for me as far as raiding goes.
If the PTR test notes are so massive perhaps the topics themselves should be broken apart for a discussion that doesn't devolve into glancing blows or such.
Proclaimer: I skipped the last 10 pages or so because the thread is just moving too fast, sorry if the discussion's been beaten to death already.
That said, I'll echo Quigon on his crusade to remove flasks. They're just stupidly overpowered and it's a shame that Blizzard has to balance for them. They should not be the norm, they should be the crutch for "weaker" guilds. When I read Nihilum killed C'thun and they had the whole raid flasked, I also laughed, because it was *that* absurd. So what if the top 50 guilds in the world blow thru the content when flasked? Is that really the standard Blizzard should balance against?
Edit: read the note about reducing flask power, good. Hope they'll hit the normal potions too, no consumable should equal two tiers of gear upgrades for a single stat.
Oh, and you also missed the bit where TK and SSC will have zone-locked Pots and the high end raids will have instance-drops flasks or mats for specific flasks (aka, fights that require flasks will at leastsomewhat -supply- the flasks).
Yeah, so what really happened is the casuals got thier alchemy fix yesterday, and here's the raider announcement. They -have- been listening, and they figured out really elegant solutions for it.
Oh, and you also missed the bit where TK and SSC will have zone-locked Pots and the high end raids will have instance-drops flasks or mats for specific flasks (aka, fights that require flasks will at leastsomewhat -supply- the flasks).
Yeah, so what really happened is the casuals got thier alchemy fix yesterday, and here's the raider announcement. They -have- been listening, and they figured out really elegant solutions for it.
Good news all around I'd say.
Its a shame really how much of this is lost on a lot of the WoW Forum Community though...but who was it that accurately predicted they would get angry Tigole posted here first?
These forums get more views than the official ones.
In addition, the official forums are mostly just places for people to practice trolling. There are more intelligent people than you might think on the official forums, but most of them have taken the place and used it as their own personal trolling ground; its gotten rather amusing. The levels of trolling and random complaining done on purpose to incite retorts is just impressive. But the whole place is worthless basically.
Wow, amazing changes, I might actually pick up tailoring now to make the sets instead of Alch/Herbalism for my 68 priest alt. This sounds real promising.
One thing though (There's always one!) that I didn't like was the mining changes. My main income since my farming is a bit slow as a protection warrior, is to ride around on my mount and mine, prospect, and then sell the stuff, or use it on gear upgrades. Depending on how the changes are, having to kill lots of mobs around veins is going to be a pain in the beeehind. I can imagine it won't be as annoying for a prot warrior though as it would be for a resto/holy whatever since I can smack on fury gear.
One thing that speaks in favor for this change is the amusing turn of events PUGs will have with a random Rambo going ahead to mine a vein with a pack nearby.
Really interested about the primal nether buying too, guessing the cost for nethers will go down now on craftables, I'll just raise the crafting price to compensate though
I dropped alchemy for enchanting a while ago, after 3 months of no discoveries I just gave up. I had every single pre-BC recipe at the time too. Most of the alchemy changes are pretty good, however the one that made me die a little inside was the Limited Invulnerability Potion nerf. I guess smart warlocks were occasionally killing rogues and the occasional hunter 'out in the wild' with them and it had to stop.
Yeah, alternating nigh-invuln belt and limited invuln pots was pretty dumb. It is sad though whenever uniquely powerful things like this are nerfed.
Overall it seems they completely missed the point of engineering. I at least, took engineering because of the unique things it provides, not because I wanted to craft cool sets of gear. Even if the helms are amazing(which they probably won't be, given the current epic helms), it'll still just be an imitation of other professions such as Blacksmithing and Tailoring, which provide a wider range of very good weapons/armor.
These forums get more views than the official ones.
While I belive these forums are the haven of guys who like to crunch numbers and raid I hardly think they get 1/100th of the views the official forums do.
We wanted to give players a closer glimpse at the changes being made regarding flask reagent costs and potency in patch 2.1. Please see the example below:
Flask of Mighty Restoration - Current
Instant
Regenerate 70 mana per 5 sec for two hours.
Dreaming Glory x20
Mana Thistle x10
Fel Lotus x1
Flask of Might Restoration - Patch 2.1
Instant
Regenerate 25 mana per 5 sec for two hours.
Dreaming Glory x7
Mana Thistle x3
Fel Lotus x1
(Please Note: The drop rate for Fel Lotus is also being increased by approximately 15% in the same patch)
Players will notice that while the effect of the flask has been dramatically reduced, so has the cost to create one. All alchemy flasks will be adjusted similarly. Lets look at an elixir with the same effect for comparison:
Elixir of Major Mageblood
Instant
Regenerate 16 mana per 5 sec for 60 min.
Ancient Lichen x1
Netherbloom x1
While the flask still requires more materials than this elixir, it also allows 9 more mana to regenerate per 5 seconds, lasts twice as long, and persists through death. The flask is probably best used when facing encounters that are especially challenging to your party or raid.
Also, we've seen players request details on the four new elixirs scheduled to go live with the next content patch and as a result, they've been detailed below.
* Elixir of Draenic Wisdom: Intellect and Spirit are increased by 25.
* Earthen Elixir: Reduces both spell and physical damage taken by 20.
* Elixir of Ironskin: Resilience is raised by 30.
* Elixir of Major Fortification: Increases health by 250 and provides 10 health every 5 seconds.
That sure sounds a hell of a lot better. Less herbs per night, and less of a gap between potted and unpotted, mana potions available for each raid instance.
That sure sounds a hell of a lot better. Less herbs per night, and less of a gap between potted and unpotted, mana potions available for each raid instance.
So.. yeah. When's the PTR coming up?
My guild is accepting the news well...my only question will be are the changing Mageblood potion to an elixir...it wouldnt be fair to let it stack if you know what I mean?
So yes, people overreacted and jumped to conclusions. We were wrong, and we're happy to have been wrong. But damn, talk to us more, would you?
At this point i don't really think i was wrong. While the alchemy changes are alot better than they first looked, i pretty much figured we didn't have the whole story there. The leatherworking and engineering stuff on the other hand appears to have been pretty much spot on. If the patch goes live as it sits right now this will probably be the end of my 2 and a half year WoW career. That may seem melodramatic and whiney, but my rogue has been a skinner/leatherworker since about an hour after Archimonde went live in Nov 04. And i'm tired of waitign for th next patch and the next patch and the one after that to get any much needed changes. This will be what the third, forth patch since TBC went live that made itemization changes and primal intent is still ~10ilevels underbudget, and spends those points it does spend in the most idiotic way possible. But that damn set bonus needed fixing, i didn't know whether to laugh or cry when i read the notes this evening in the profesion forums. Not even the courtesy of making it so we could start crafting the sets at 350 instead of 375 like tailorign and blacksmithing. then to ad insult in to injury the friggen tailorign sets got thie chestpeices changed to robes to much cheering.
Don't think the leatherworkign stuff is all that's got me pissed, it was just the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back. There's a whole plethora of things i look at and wonder "How in the hell has this not been fixed yet, much less make it through beta untouched" that isn't being rectified. Things like the virtual non-existance on non dagger offhands, which really sucks because of the way weapon specialization and combat potency work. And it would have been SO simple to fix, a rep sword/fist here, one of each for badge turnin. All three of which would have taken 5 min max to do if they reused skins/models which would have been just fine.
For me, with my transmutes on a alt between raids ,instances and plain forgetfulness my transmute timer allways ends up drifting to some time after midnight . then I get a early night and boom back to tranmuteing after work around 6pm.
So its not a 1/24 increase its not losing a transmute timer every 1-2 weeks.
I've been transmuting Primal Earth to Water every day now for 6 weeks and the time in which I transmute has changed by one hour. (First thing I do when I get to work) So yea, I do transmute and knocking the timer back an hour nets me one extra transmute every 24 days. You can try to justify it all you want but in all actuality knocking the timer down by an hour is pointless. What would be beneficial would be seperate timers on all transmutable items or perhaps keep it how it is but allow you transmute a stack of something at a time.
I've been transmuting Primal Earth to Water every day now for 6 weeks and the time in which I transmute has changed by one hour. (First thing I do when I get to work) So yea, I do transmute and knocking the timer back an hour nets me one extra transmute every 24 days. You can try to justify it all you want but in all actuality knocking the timer down by an hour is pointless.
Clearly then, this change is not intended to help you, or people like you who manage their transmutes with extreme precision. Rather, it is aimed at people who are a touch more casual about it and do it "around" the time the transmute timer is up, as this means we won't suffer from a gradual timer creep as our transmute slips later and later in the day.
I personally thought it was an extremely elegant change: this wasn't meant to vastly improve the quantity of transmutes - as you say, it barely changes the real volume of transmutes going on - but greatly increases the convenince of the system for those who don't care to manage it to within a few minutes every day. Very far from pointless for many people.
04/12/07, 8:05 PM
But I know you're kidding, and I'm being an emo kid even replying eh.
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