Yeah... I am really looking forward to a fight that requires the use of 30g one use pots. Not sure what Blizzard was thinking with those pots requiring a Primal... maybe in the pre-nerf Elemental Plain, but where the average price for a Primal Fire is 28g according to wowhead (which sounds right), I can't see anyone ever using those... not even tanks.

Until the patch notes say something about changing the idiotic alchemy discovery system then call me unimpressed.

I have had exactly 0 discoveries so far. I don't mind if they change the number of flasks, durations, or cooldowns on potions, but just give me a little variety.

I'm looking forward to seeing the full context of the changes and I really hope engineers get a boost. I dropped engineering very quickly once TBC came out and I realized there was pretty much nothing worthwhile considering the effort and cost involved.

New blue info:

Are Raids being Re-Tuned due to Elixir change?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...93960323&sid=1

So thats pretty much proof thats all the changes to consumables we are going to see.
Which makes it the biggest dissapointment since finding out santa isnt real.

The fact that they arent even going to retune current content is also mindboggling as it means we are going to see even more flasking to make up for what we loose in elixirs.

This does NOT bode well.

What this says is, they don't expect the current changes to consumables to affect the relative power levels of players, which means they don't think they need to retune, which means they aren't making more significant changes.

I'd imagine they're doing a tuning pass of SSC/TK in 2.1 with the limitation in mind, since all evidence points to these dungeons never being tuned at all. All the content that HAS seen the great hand of tuneage (Kara & Gruul) will still be very very doable, obviously.

Well, considering karazhan + gruul/magtheridon are fine without pots/flasks for the majority of the raid, pretty much besides a flask on the MT on most fights at least until SSC the elixir change wont do much. I can't speak much of SSC but it's not like they have to redo completely TBC raid encounters, at most they have to redo 3-4 fights in SSC and maybe some of the yet undefeated bosses in TK.

What I personally hope for is the additional changes they want to reveal possibly before the end of the week make that a flask takes the spot of offensive elixirs at least.

I'm kinda hoping for a new flask of supreme power. Pre TBC I was happy their was none, considering blizzard would balance encounters around it, but seeing how the price of non outland herbs has skyrocketed and how annoying it is to go back to the old azeroth and farm herbs on a 100% speed mount I really hope they offer a new alternative for casters, at least mages and shadow priests can use the mana regen one which I think is decent but warlocks have nothing new, 50-70g for a flask of supreme power is really expensive considering that the new flasks have a chance to provide additional ones if a elixir spec alchemist makes it while requiring cheaper herbs to start with!

I'm not sure the comments about tuning mean anything at all. For one thing, the changes to alchemy don't mean anything unless flasks are somehow included in the notes... even then, does 500 armor for your MT break an encounter for you? They just missed the nail badly on this one... massive disconnect between decision makers and the flower pickers on the ground (I mean raiders).

Or perhaps it means the changes they're making to the tier and raid loot are significant enough to make up the deficiencies caused by the elixir change.

Not only that, you need to farm for more mats for the 4 new elixirs that will most likely be needed depending on the encounter! So, we will actually have an increase to the amount of time farming and our mats will be spread out over more pots. This is two steps backwards - we didn't need new pots to waste our time on......and to waste more spots in our inventory with since they don't stack past 5. Think about it - load up on pots for SSC or TK and realize you need pot A for fight 1, pot B for fight 2, etc. I have to admit, I'm not surprised they didn't understand what our complaint was and then initiate a fix that made things even worse.

Bottom line to WoW endgame: You still can't raid if you are not an herber with 3-6 hours a free time per week spent flying in circles. Who put Dogbert in charge of WoW?

Unless the changes trickle down to the Karazhan level and Tier 4 then there's still going to be an issue with guilds being able to kill maulguar / gruul and then hitting the brick wall of SSC and Tempest Keep.
Barring the weapons, guilds aren't gearing up from Karazhan / Gruul at all, and that makes it a big issue when they reach the next stage of raiding.

I could forsee the alchemy changes making the other crafted group buff items more important. Things like Drums of War (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29528) and Braided Eternium Chain (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=24114) come to mind. My guild currently does not use any of these items (except for mass shadow neck usage on Kazzak), but I can see the impetus to start, especially if current encounters are not going to be retuned.

If this is the case, the amount of farming may very well be the same, just directed at different professions.

50-70g for supreme power is quite reasonable. Most of the new flasks go for 10-20g more than that. (Fort is at 110 on my server.) And I can think of very few situations where it would benefit a mage to forsake 150+dmg in favor of 70 mana/5, much less a shadowpriest who would see almost half that in increased mana return from VT.

PS: Old world flasks will proc off of Elixir Spec

Whether competent healerss can get by (i.e. keep the raid alive) without flasking or not, you're not going to find DPS that do the same DPS without flasks as with. So when the push comes to kill something ASAP, people will want to flask DPS. And with encounters as they currently are, that push comes more often than it ever used to, since bleeding-edge gear 4 months into TBC is not much butter than bleeding-edge gear 4 weeks into TBC.

I think I had seen the post in alchemy discussion before that someone had came up with this one-slot-elixir idea.

If you had followed the discussion on alchemy before, people came up with all kind of idea to limit the usage of pots in raids.

Why didn't I see people bashing those ideas?

People keep talking about how AI will not stack with elixirs etc, what about the DPS class buffs? Won't Might override a +AP elixir? And grace of air totem for +dmg ones?

Seems to me the buffs not stacking with pots is more of a change than we are giving it credit for; if we can only use pots to replace missing classes (And would kings negate every +stat buff ever?)

god I'm completely retarded *slaps forehead*. A shame though, as I was thinking about the implications of not letting buffs stack, it seemed like it would solve all the problems; less of a clear margin between potted and non-potted players, assuming they were fully buffed. Ah well. Back to being unimpressed with the changes

edit: someone else beat me to it

As a hunter though with the following changes in regards to stacking...Do you think Mageblood potion will stack with Elixir of Major Mageblood?

If that is the case...sigh. More things to farm.

The idea is fine. It just cant stand alone.
Flask power needs to be reduced.
Guess its still an open question whether or not flasks counts as elixirs in this new change, but it doesnt matter much here. If nothing else is changed flasks will be required for "everything".
What was best would really be, 1 elixir or flask (or maybe 2 elixirs OR one flask, if such a system was possible). Flask power nerfed. For wipe nights a flask might be cheaper and more powerful. For farming, the elixir would be cheaper, but also slightly less powerful.

All in all, the only real reason to go for a flask instead of elixir would be for the "last through death".

On top of that a longer cd on potions would be really good, but I guess such a change could still come too.

Consumables for healers in particular were never THAT much of a problem. Hell, most of my farming consists of playing BGs for tokens that I turn into Major Combat Mana Potions. Same for tanks...ever since BWL the raid/guild will gladly eat the cost of Titans/Fort flasks. Problem comes with the obscene DPS races we're faced with fight after fight. Used to be, genuinely intense DPS races came a couple times an instance. You'd pot out the ass (no Relentless Assault flask, Supreme Power flasks you'd see sometimes) for the first kill and taper from there. A month or two later, gear upgrades let your DPS blow past the benchmarks you'd potted for. There's a number of problems here (tuning, consumables, alchemy/herbalism and the gear plateau) and Blizzard doesn't seem like they understand any of them.

About the only change I'd like to see to Alchemy is boosting the proc change to >50%, but remove those 3-5 procs.
Boosting it to 100% would reduce the dependence on herbalism as a gathering skill, but possibly be slightly OP.