I worry that Blizz is lumping all thier eggs in one basket with this patch. They're stalling things which need immediate fixes (anti-melee mobs, trash respawns, epic reitemization, trade skill fixes) to be released at a much later date along with non-pressing content such as Black Temple (provided you need tempest keep/SSC lvl gear to compete in BT.
Making gold in TBC is a joke in itself entirely. I'm not an Alt kind of guy but if you do have one take on one of the other peoples suggestions and don't do any quests until 66 or so and just run blood furnace. Once you do that go back and do ALL the quests and you will have more gold than you know what to do with.
Wow, I thought my suggestion of not turning in quests AFTER 68 until you hit 70 would be considered rough for people. You're suggesting a person run Blood Furnace from 60-66? Sure you'd have money when you went back, but you'd also be slicing your wrists.
JUICE! Aww I'm sorry. Did... did anyone want some juice?
Wow, I thought my suggestion of not turning in quests AFTER 68 until you hit 70 would be considered rough for people. You're suggesting a person run Blood Furnace from 60-66? Sure you'd have money when you went back, but you'd also be slicing your wrists.
Agreed on the wrist slicing. Also I don't see how you would get any more money, you need to be max level to get the exp->gold conversion.
Ramparts/Blood Furnace until you're honored (61/62 most likely) then do Hellfire in between Slave Pens/Underbog until honored (64/65, maybe 66). Then do Zangramarsh while grabbing Crypts and Halls runs until honored- once you hit that, finish out your questing in Terokkar/Nagrand.
At the end you'll be spitting distance to revered with HH/CE/LC, honored with Consortium, and geared with great gear to start the level 70 instances. Hell I started Shadow Labs at 68, Steam Vaults at 69 and finished my Kara key pieces the day I hit 70.... took another day to find a decent BM group to finish it.
At the end you've got a VERY well factioned and geared alt (great for professions!) and most of 3-4 zones left for questing gold.
Those of you who volunteered to be injected with praying mantis DNA, I've got some good news and some bad news.
Bad news is we're postponing those tests indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men.
Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts. BSG Quick Reference
If anything its REALLY nice to see they're not marching blindly forward in order to release Black Temple without thinking about other aspects of the game. I've been worried for a while that they're trying too hard to release Black Temple and that would be it until the next expansion.
Although it still feels far, far too early to release it given that not a soul has stepped into Hyjal yet.
There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
Pretty excited about these new additions, although the outdoor content part always makes me skeptical as to how much there is actually going to be. (a) Awesome new hub with repeatable fun stuff to do, or (B) Blah Silithus. Hoping at least 1-2 of these will turn into instanced dungeons but I doubt it.
The trash change makes me the happiest, as we're starting SSC next week >_<
*** Response to the whiners...
Oh, and for people who don't understand how to make money in TBC... really? There are SO many options people have gone over it's ridiculous. I started TBC with ~2k gold, bought an epic flier, bought blade of wizardry for ~3k, dropped my cash-cow herbalism skill and powered up tailoring in 4 days and crafted 3/3 spellfire by buying cloth/primals, and purchased mountains upon mountains of pots/flasks --- and I'm STILL somehow around 1.5k gold. All this why working 50 hours a week and farming maybe only 30 min a day. Instances and proper planning, a la Bekah's plan above, are key. A couple blue BoEs help but I've only had maybe 4 of them so far?
(PS, yes, grinding dungeons like Furnace and saving quests is the best way to level. Even if you don't get cash right away, you're effectively saving quest xp for cash later on when you delay doing zangarmarsh until you're level 65 or so. It's /wrist but if you really want something, you'll make the sacrifices for it)
I'd rather they'd stop introducing new content until the get the current content right :x
Raid content isn't perfect, but they did a damn fine job with five-man stuff. Reputations aren't an unbearable grind, the loot is solid and heroics (while needed better loot) offer a sense of progression.
I'd much rather see more accessible content in 2.1 rather than a raid instance not even the top raids will be ready for.
Agreed on the wrist slicing. Also I don't see how you would get any more money, you need to be max level to get the exp->gold conversion.
The idea is that you do BF to 66, do the HFP/ZM/Terokkar quests to 70, then have SMV/BEM/Netherstorm/Nagrand to gold grind quests.
Such is mankind, blind and bound to a dying world, nought but the writhing worm that mires itself in the corruption of its own progenitors. They who feast today do so in ignorance of their mortality, for tomorrow they must die or change and, if changing, then forever open their eyes to the dark hunger of eternal life.
Skyguard and Netherwing look like 2 new professions to grind. On my server, primal water sells for around 20+g per. I can easily farm around 5+ primal waters an hour in Skettis in addition to around 20-25g off vendor trash and some d/ed stuff from greens. However, I'm finding it harder and harder to bring myself to spend an hour farming these places.
It's /wrist but if you really want something, you'll make the sacrifices for it)
It's /wrist then, or /wrist later when I'm wondering "Do I *really* want that epic mount?". The difference is in one case it's optional, and in the other case it isn't. Getting to 70 is non-optional (for the people we're talking about), and the epic mount is completely optional.
I really can't understand the people who repeatedly grind instances like BF. It just strikes me as a way to make yourself want to quit the game.
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
2-manning old-world instances to feed the Large Brilliant Shard market hay.:
Strictly speaking, they're mostly soloable for the right class, but two is more fun (and it lets us non-enchanters get in on the act).
Also feeds the runecloth market for the OMG MUST SWITCH TO TAILORING market if you're doing a humanoid instance, and why not?
Dark Runes are also going for something criminal on our server (mostly paladins after their epic, I suspect). I need to find a second person and just clear and reset that room 5 times an hour for a few hours and make a killing.
It's /wrist then, or /wrist later when I'm wondering "Do I *really* want that epic mount?". The difference is in one case it's optional, and in the other case it isn't. Getting to 70 is non-optional (for the people we're talking about), and the epic mount is completely optional.
I really can't understand the people who repeatedly grind instances like BF. It just strikes me as a way to make yourself want to quit the game.
Personally, I had a ton of fun running BF and other low level 5-mans repeatedly with my small crew of RL friends. I guess we had already run a bunch of the quests on Beta and enjoyed the game at a slow pace that way, and we were ready to experience more of the level 70 content, /shrug. The extra gold, at the time, was an accidental convenience, but I don't regret it at all looking back now.
However, I know that if you don't have a set crew to run 5-mans with repeatedly and break the tedium over vent, this could be a recipe for a quick account cancellation. Different strokes I guess.
I think it's great that they're putting in new end game content for non-raiders/pvpers, but did it have to be Skettis? First the master's cellar and now Skettis, Blizzard just loves nurfing my favorite non-crowded farming places.
This "planning" isn't really possible when you're a reroll hitting 60 two days before the xpac and a tailor/enchanter.
I'm very sorry but all everyone's "solutions" involve sacrificing significant other portions of the game in order to start earning your money. Drop your professions. Level an alt. Go respec. Or my favorite, "you should've saved money at 60", as if there aren't a ton of Draenei/Blood Elf out there already.
I'll admit I'm bad with cash, but even assuming I make twice as much as I said... 100g an hour. I can't even imagine 50 hours of farming.
Rant over... back on topic.
I could make 100g+/h as a mage pre expansion. I can make 100g a day just browsing the AH for 10 mins.
Farm scryer rep in eclipse point and you'll net over 150g/h if you disenchant all the greens you get.
God, all these "quick & easy" solutions to making money anger me...
Great, you just told the world that you can make 100g by spending 10mins on ah, well how the hell does that help the rest of us?
The fact of the matter remains that the moneydrain called raiding requires an income, and however you put it, this income means some sort of timeconsuming and mind-numbingly boring farming to ~99% of the playerbase.
Imo, justifying a boring and repetitive task in a video game, a hobby for recreation and _fun_, is simply impossible. You can say "its needed", you can say "thats how it is", you can say "use the system, dont fight it" and so on, but you cant justify it.
Name something else thats fun/hobbyish... say watching a movie, how bout you _had_ to pause the video for 10 mins pr hour, it would clearly diminish the experience.
God, all these "quick & easy" solutions to making money anger me...
Great, you just told the world that you can make 100g by spending 10mins on ah, well how the hell does that help the rest of us?
The fact of the matter remains that the moneydrain called raiding requires an income, and however you put it, this income means some sort of timeconsuming and mind-numbingly boring farming to ~99% of the playerbase.
Imo, justifying a boring and repetitive task in a video game, a hobby for recreation and _fun_, is simply impossible. You can say "its needed", you can say "thats how it is", you can say "use the system, dont fight it" and so on, but you cant justify it.
Name something else thats fun/hobbyish... say watching a movie, how bout you _had_ to pause the video for 10 mins pr hour, it would clearly diminish the experience.
well, every hobby has it downsides. Sports have injuries, boring warmups, etc etc :p
The people I was adressing to said it was impossible for them to get 5k gold for an epic mount.
I never said time and gold sink of raiding was justified, I just said gold is easy to get if you put a little bit effort in it. If you want to achieve something anywhere you have to sacrifice something else, that's how it works.
Name something else thats fun/hobbyish... say watching a movie, how bout you _had_ to pause the video for 10 mins pr hour, it would clearly diminish the experience.
And such rants anger me
Whats an achievement worth when you reduce all the effort to meaningless?
Whats the difference between an epic and a normal mount when everyone could afford the epic one without a second thought or preparation?
Timesinks are not just there to anger you ... they serve an implicit purpose.
Ramparts/Blood Furnace until you're honored (61/62 most likely) then do Hellfire in between Slave Pens/Underbog until honored (64/65, maybe 66). Then do Zangramarsh while grabbing Crypts and Halls runs until honored- once you hit that, finish out your questing in Terokkar/Nagrand.
At the end you'll be spitting distance to revered with HH/CE/LC, honored with Consortium, and geared with great gear to start the level 70 instances. Hell I started Shadow Labs at 68, Steam Vaults at 69 and finished my Kara key pieces the day I hit 70.... took another day to find a decent BM group to finish it.
At the end you've got a VERY well factioned and geared alt (great for professions!) and most of 3-4 zones left for questing gold.
That's how I did it for my reroll. Since we had three rogues rerolling priest, druid and warrior we never ever had problems getting a group together (or having fun in the TS ). When we finished Zangarmarsh, we were about 66/67. We did Terrokar rather quickly and didn't farm the Krypts and the Toomb intensively. We compensated this by doing 4 or 5 Sethekk Halls runs which pushed our faction with the Lower City to honored. I reached 70 before finishing Nagrand, our priest took a little bit longer due to the fact that he was just level 58 when he went through the portal.
I might add that since reaching 70 on friday I already got three heroic keys.
Looking back at what most folks discussed at the start of BC regarding attunements, I must say that getting revered with all factions may be archieved within 1-2 weeks, which is pretty fast I guess. If you plan accordingly, at that time you will have sufficient gear and the attunement to get to Kara as well. Attunement might only become a problem in terms of later raid dungeons (aka SS and later, though I predict that even attuning a member to SS will be a breeze for most raiding guilds within 3-4 month.
If I ever get bored enough to level another character I will take the same route again, if it is possible.
Regarding the main topic: I am looking really forward to new quests, I like the quest design in BC quite a lot, many interesting twists and gimmicks. It offers also a new source of income for those who don't own their epic flyer yet (or who need to put larger investments into their stuff, gems don't come cheaply these days).
Whats an achievement worth when you reduce all the effort to meaningless?
Timesinks are not just there to anger you ... they serve an implicit purpose.
maybe the effort of $$ every month isnt enough. lets have customers clean toilettes before we let them see a the movie they paid for.
after playing X amount of time to be able to raid , people want to raid. not waste their time with cleaning up. dont know whats wrong with this idea. if endgame is raiding , why do players have to "waste" their (paid) time with farming ?
maybe the effort of $$ every month isnt enough. lets have customers clean toilettes before we let them see a the movie they paid for.
after playing X amount of time to be able to raid , people want to raid. not waste their time with cleaning up. dont know whats wrong with this idea. if endgame is raiding , why do players have to "waste" their (paid) time with farming ?
you can perfectly raid without having to farm, it will just take longer and you won't be able to beat everything. Just like you will be able to play a sport but you won't be good at it if you don't prepare well and put a lot of effort in it.
you can perfectly raid without having to farm, it will just take longer and you won't be able to beat everything. Just like you will be able to play a sport but you won't be good at it if you don't prepare well and put a lot of effort in it.
ofc you can. atm i think in wow the balance between time vs. risk vs. reward is way off and from my own experience players quitting left/right.
There is an imbalance and people are leaving, and hence we see hotfixes on stuff and you see posts that state that they are looking into things and that people's concerns are heard. R&J for example where originally Tigole said it wasn't overly hard. People quit left and right indeed and now there is some retuning.
But from what I hear the real issue is not so much that top end guilds haven't seen untuned/overtuned content all vanilla long, but rather that by the reset TBC introduced, a lot more people faced content that wasn't completely polished/tuned yet.
The polish was very good up until and I'd say including 5-man heroics and early Karazhan. Later Karazhan is still being modified (and certainly was post release) giving an indication that the shoeshine polish just hadn't gotten that far. But a lot of people ran around expecting comfortable and fairly tuned raiding and got surprised, because a lot hadn't see this before.
The consumables dilemma is exactly that. I don't think Blizz expected that potting would be widely disliked as much as it has been and now with the feedback it's being retuned. To be seen how exactly. It really does feel like Blizz wants to have consumables play some bigger roles in raiding than it has in most of vanilla still, reading the announced changes so far. For a lot of folks that never got to the heavy potting of late naxx, this will, it seems even with the changes, require some adjusting.