Isn't this a Defense issue?

I thought dazed is purely from getting hit in the back side.

It's not a Defense issue- my Defense skill is capped.

EDIT: Wait, never mind, it probably is a Defense issue. I was using Resilience items for crit immunity rather than Defense and thus I still had a chance to be Dazed. Right?

Malan- WoW Forums -> "Daze" and Confused

That says "base defense". Typically, that means 5*player level cap. +Defense gear shouldn't help that, similar to how it won't prevent crushing blows and +skill doesn't prevent glancing blows.

I'm sure you ruled this out already, but did you have a Hunter in the group? If AotP was up it would explain your daze problem.

No he was in my group, 2 rogues, enhance shaman, warrior, feral druid.

Drysc's post is actually just vague enough that +defense might actually modify daze. "this lowers or raises based on the difference between player defense and mob attack" is where the ambiguity comes in. I know there's a lot of anecdotal evidence of warriors and paladins in tanking gear not getting dazed ever or rarely.

Well ok then, at what rate does +defense translate into -% chance to be dazed?

And practically speaking I'd still like to know how other phoenix OTs are picking up adds in a "gather all adds and burn Al'ar" strat. Are you guys getting dazed at all? If so what do you do?

Defense as a skill definitely affects the chance to get dazed, I usually fly/ride around on my tanking gear because I enjoy the high health, and I haven't been dazed since I hit the amount of defense necessary to not get crit.

I have no idea how it translates directly though, but I'm will to record a combat log with me wearing tank gear versus not wearing it as proof.

Old discussion about daze during the Razorgore encounter
http://elitistjerks.com/f33/t7604-encounter_oddities/

The consensus is a def-capped player is simply immune to daze. Granted anecdotal evidence, but your MT will definitely tell you he's never ever been dazed (unless he's running around in pvp gear).

Good thread, although it's a large mass of anecdotes. I guess I could test the numbers for defense vs. daze at some point this week.

So if you need 490 defense (I have no illusions that SotF affects daze chance, pretty obvious to me that it does not) to become undazeable, is it just inadvisable altogether for me to OT all of the adds in phase 2?

Back in Naxxramas our Paladins tried to maximize defense to minimize dazed on that two headed hound which name I've forgotten. I'm pretty sure when you're crit immune via defense, you're also daze immune.

Yeah, to my knowledge, nobody has actually done anything remotely resembling a decent statistical treatment of this phenomenon. The best information we have is a long history of MTs/tanks correllating higher defense skill to daze immunity, and now recently a blizz poster confirming this.

Also, the idea that crit immunity is also daze immunity is anecdotal too - based on most tanks reporting that they stop seeing daze entirely around when they stop stacking +def skill.

I haven't been dazed in over a year, I think that is testament enough that very high defense makes you immune to daze. Whether or not it is defense cap = no daze cap or not, well that would take more empirical evidence to convince me, but without a doubt the two numbers have to be pretty close if not the same.

Also note this doesn't mean crit immune = daze immune. You can go crit immune from resilience and still be dazed plenty, it is PURELY off your defense skill and level compared to that of the mob you are fighting, and nothing else.

I can second that. IIRC I have never been dazed when being crit immune (by "capping" def). That includes pre and post BC content. I have never been dismounted either (everyone here surely *loved* the elite patrol in the eastern plaguelands) when wearing def gear, and to my knowledge being dismounted is correlated to daze, isn't it?

More anecdotal evidence: Skettis bombing quests in PVP gear = *lots* of dismounts thanks to those nice birds that roam the zone. However, in my tanking gear, I yet have to get dismounted once, and I usually end up dragging 3-4 birds around with me while bombing stuff just because I don't care enough anymore to get rid of them.

Edit: suicuique - yeah, getting dismounted is a direct result of getting dazed.

Seems like the anecdotal evidence weighs towards not using a feral tank on the adds in Phase 2 in that case.

Another fun thing is when someone is standing by the door and Al'ar meteors himself into the doorway and leashes at 10%, I want my 12 minutes back.

Whoah back up. You can leash her?

So last week we had a particularly bad A'lar.

We ended up with only 4 tanks for the night so 2 for adds and 2 for A'lar. I am always an offtank and usually wear about 250 FR for the odd resist on the add explosions. After a bad taunt resist we have the MT tank a Melt Armor phase for too long and die. I run in to pick up A'lar and from 20% - 0% with 3 Melt Armor resists we get the kill.

A'lar's melee damage seemed rather minor even while wearing only 23k armor, seems a lot more controllable wearing FR than with standard geared tanks cycling taunt.

Does anyone else run FR tanks for A'lar or does everyone just use two or 3 standard tanks with taunt cycles.

Definitely not in a traditional sense. We tried to run out once or twice in our initial attempts when people would die at inopportune times. She'll sit there and flame buffet the raid if you don't have anyone in melee. You can run for the exit of the instance to reset it, but that's not very effective as you'll be taking fire damage the whole way. We did have a sacrifice group of 3 healers + a tank stand there and die while everyone else ran out when we were first learning the fight (largely to save soulstone timers).

She may leash if you have someone outside the room and they're the target of a charge or a meteor. Fortunately I've never seen either happen.

We used a pally tank on the adds last night and it seemed to work out pretty decently.

Al'ar is EASILY leashed as long as you can get her out the door, which is very easy if you have a tank dragging her there.