Wub

I will list here all alchemy changes i can find, if you have additional info or see error's please fill me in.

- Discovery chance in current patch (2.0.12) is disabled due an exploit.

- Discovery chance on new recipes is greatly increased.

- 5 Imbued Vials now cost 2 gold from 3 gold (with honored discount: 1.8g from 2.7g).

- Fel Lotus drop rate has greatly increased. (15% chance on each TBC herb).

- Unknown if the Black Lotus spawn-rate also has increased in the old world.

- Fel Mana Potion now has -25 magic damage and -50 healing power debuff from 25 all magic spells and effects. Restored mana is the same.

- Fel Strength Potion changed to 90 attack power and -10 stamina debuff 1hour, from 120 attack power and -20 stamina debuff 1hour.

- Elixir of Fire/Frost/Shadow Power potions are all now +55 fire/frost/shadow damage 1hour. (Only the Fire and Shadow Power Potion used to be +65 damage, Frost Power Potion was always +55 damage).

- Major x Protection Potions costs increased to 3 Mana Thistle + 1 Primal x, but produces 5 Potions instead of 1. (Unknown if this works with potion mastery).

- Major x Protection Potions will now have a 2 minute durations instead of 1 hour.

- Herbing a mob (like skinning) gives a chance on acquiring a Black Lotus.

- Super Mana Potions now require 2 Dreaming Glory instead of 2 Netherbloom to create.

- Super Healing Potions now require 2 Netherbloom instead of 2 Dreaming Glory to create.

- Greater Stoneshield Potions requires 2 Stonescale Oils to make.

- 4 new guardian potions are:
Elixir of Draenic Wisdom, Trainer learned, +30 Intellect and Spirit for 1 hour. (1 Felweed, 1 Terocone, 1 Imbued Vial). This will stack with AI and DS buffs.
Elixir of Major Fortitude, Trainer learned, +250 Health and 10 Health per 5 seconds for 1 hour. (2 Ragveil, 1 Felweed, 1 Imbued Vial).
Earthen Elixir, Cenarion Expedition Honored 320 skill, prevents up to 20 physical or magic dmg per attack for 1 hour. (1 Dreaming Glory, 2 Ragveil, 1 Imbued Vial).
Elixir of Ironskin, Halaa Quartermaster 2 Research Tokens 330 skill, 30 Resilience for 1 hour. (1 Ancient Lichen 1 Ragveil, 1 Imbued Vial).

- New Cauldrons will be added to the game particular designed for raid encounters, they work like Warlocks' Soulwells and they give you 1 Major x Protection Potion when you click on it. The potion will have the status of a conjured item (meaning after logging out for more then 15 minutes it will disapear.) Its not known yet how the recipes for these Cauldrons will be acquired. No Cauldron of Major Holy Protection Potion known yet. For more info:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/n.../cauldrons.jpg

- TBC elixirs category's:

Battle elixirs:
Elixir of Major Shadow Power
Fel Strength Elixir
Elixir of Major Agility
Elixir of Major Fire Power
Elixir of Major Frost Power
Elixir of Mastery
Elixir of Healing Power
Elixir of Major Strength
Adept's Elixir
Onslaught Elixir

Guardian elixirs:
Elixir of Major Defense
Elixir of Draenic Wisdom
Earthen Elixir
Elixir of Major Fortitude
Elixir of Ironskin
Elixir of Major Mageblood
Elixir of Empowerment

No category:
Elixir of the Searching Eye
Elixir of Camouflage

- New Flask stats:
TBC Flasks
Flask of Fortification - 500 Health and 10 Defense Rating for 2 hours. (7 Ancient Lichen, 3 Mana Thistle, 1 Fel Lotus, 1 Imbued Vial).
Flask of Mighty Restoration - 25 Mana per 5 seconds for 2 hours. (7 Dreaming glory, 3 Mana Thistle, 1 Fel Lotus, 1 Imbued Vial).
Flask of Relentless Assault - 120 Attack Power for 2 hours. (7 Terocone, 3 Mana Thistle, 1 Fel Lotus, 1 Imbued Vial).
Flask of Arcane Fortification - 35 Arcane Resist and 20 Health per 5 seconds for 2 hours. (7 Netherbloom, 3 Mana Thistle, 1 Fel Lotus, 1 Imbued Vial).
Flask of Shadow Fortification - 35 Arcane Resist and 20 Health per 5 seconds for 2 hours. (7 Nightmare vine, 3 Mana Thistle, 1 Fel Lotus, 1 Imbued Vial).

Old Flasks
Flask of the Titans - 400 Health for 2 hours. (7 Gromsblood, 3 Stonescale Oil, 1 Black Lotus, 1 Crystal Vial).
Flask of Distilled Wisdom - 65 Intellect for 2 hours. (7 Dreamfoil, 3 Icecap, 1 Black Lotus, 1 Crystal Vial).
Flask of Supreme Power - 70 Spell Damage for 2 hours. (7 Dreamfoil, 3 Mountain Silversage, 1 Black Lotus, 1 Crystal Vial).
Flask of Chromatic Resistance - 25 Resist All for 2 hours. (7 Icecap, 3 Mountain Silversage, 1 Black Lotus, 1 Crystal Vial).
Flask of Petrification - 60 seconds immunity for 2 hours. (7 Stonescale Oil, 1 Black Lotus, 1 Crystal Vial).

 

Saroz

What are the old/new flasks changed to, in terms of stats?

Saroz

Author of sRaidFrames: http://www.wowace.com/wiki/SRaidFrames
... aswell as: BadgeWatch, Aurora, FuBar_AlchemyFu, FuBar_CombatTimeFu & Memento Mori

 

• Vykromond

New Flask Stats

Not sure there need to be two separate threads both about 2.1's alchemy changes, but w/e

 

exci

Now the big question, can potion masters proc on this and will it go as far as a 25 potions proc .

 

◊ Bekah

I'm fairly sure that Mageblood was a guardian elixir =)

 

sasukekun

Elixir of Major Mageblood and Mageblood potions are both Guardian Elixirs. (Yes, Mageblood Potion is considered Guardian Elixir)

 

Cesar2000

Yep, so you can stack mageblood/healing power.

 

Cesar2000

nm.........

 

Nausicca

A "Patch 2.1 Alchemy review" i did for my guild forums to cut through the current infomation overload going on at the moment.

After the comming patch, Elixirs will be seperated into 2 groups. Guardian Elixirs, and Battle Elixirs.
Currently the TBC Elixirs sit in the groups like this: (FLASKS TAKE UP BOTH SLOTS)

Battle elixirs:
Elixir of Major Shadow Power
Fel Strength Elixir
Elixir of Major Agility
Elixir of Major Fire Power
Elixir of Major Frost Power
Elixir of Mastery
Elixir of Healing Power
Elixir of Major Strength
Adept's Elixir
Onslaught Elixir

Guardian elixirs:
Elixir of Major Mageblood
Elixir of Major Defense
Elixir of Draenic Wisdom
Earthen Elixir
Elixir of Major Fortitude
Elixir of Ironskin

The herb cost (and the vial cost) for all elixirs have been reduced, however, so has the effect, e.g. Fel Strength Elixir changed to 90 AP down from 120.
There are also 4 new Elixirs waiting to be learned, from trainers and also from CE rep and Nagrand rep:

Elixir of the Ironskin
Increases resilience rating by 30 for 1 hour. Guardian Elixir.
Requires Ancient Lichen, Ragveil, Imbued Vial

Elixir of Major Fortitude
Increases your maximum health by 250 and restores 10 health every 5 seconds for 1 hour. Guardian Elixir.
Requires 2 Ragveil, Felweed, Imbued Vial

Elixir of Draenic Wisdom
Increases Intellect and Spirit by 30 for 1 hour. Guardian Elixir
Requires Felweed, Terrocone, Imbued Vial

Earthen Elixir
Prevents up to 20 damage done by a physical or magical attack for 1 hour. Guardian Elixir
Requires Dreaming Glory, Ragveil, Imbued Vial


Flasks have also been changed. All Flasks have had their herb cost reduced, and also their effect, so they are easier to get but less powerful.
Here is a list of the what the new flasks will look like:

- Flask of Fortification 500 HP and 10 Defense Rating
- Flask of Mighty Restoration 25 MP / 5sec
- Flask of Relentless Assault 120 AP
- Flask of Arcane Fortification 35 Arcane Resist 20 HP / 5sec
- Flask of Shadow Fortification 35 Arcane Resist 20 HP / 5sec
- Flask of Titans 400 HP
- Distilled Wisdom 65 Intellect
- Supreme Power 70 Spell Damage
- Chromatic Resistance 25 Resist All

And here is one example of what the material cost is for these new flasks:

Flask of Might Restoration - Patch 2.1
Regenerate 25 mana per 5 sec for two hours.
Dreaming Glory x7
Mana Thistle x3
Fel Lotus x1

Another example is the Flask of Supreme Power, which only need 7 Dreamfoil and 3 Icecap.

Because people will be using flasks more often, the drop rates for Fel Lotus AND the spawn points for Black Lotus, have been increased. (Fel Lotus will now drop 15% of the time)

There are also new [i]Zone Specific Flasks, these are flasks that can only be used when for example, you are inside Gruuls lair. Here are some of the flasks availible for Gruuls Lair:[/b]

Unstable Flask of the Bandit +20 Agi +40 AP +30 Sta
Unstable Flask of the Beasts +20 Agi +20 Str +30 Sta
Unstable Flask of the Elder +20 Int +8 MP5 +30 Sta
Unstable Flask of the Physician +20 Int +44 Healing +30 Sta
Unstable Flask of the Soldier +20 Crit Rating +20 Str +30 Sta
Unstable Flask of the Sorcerer +20 Int +23 Spl Dmg +30 Sta

Although there is no information about how these new flasks are obtained, there is further information which says items like Coilfang Armaments will lplay a role in getting these new flasks, and zone specific Potions.
-------------------------------------------------

Patch 2.1 Alchemy are you!

These changes to alchemy obviously have far reaching effects on TBC raiding. A fully buffed member of a raid can look like this:

Flask + Food Buff + Weapon Oil + Potions

OR

Guardian Elixir + Battle Elixir + Food Buff + Weapon Oil + Potions

As you can see a 2 hour flask that lasts through death, and an Oil that also lasts through death looks like a better option. Also, Stamina buffs earnt though drinking, no longer stack with food buffs, so Rum is no longer needed.

You might be thinking: "but how are we going to kill bosses with so much less raid dps, because these flasks are rubbish compared to the old ones!" to tackle this issue, Blizzard are re-tuning all the TBC bosses, to lower their HP, and make them hit softer. In addition to this, they are buffing items and in particular, Teir Sets. The idea is that your armour should make more of a diference than your buffs, and getting an armour upgrade should actually mean something.

The end result of this, is that preparing for raids will be much easier, and you have more choice in how to prepare for them (1 flask or 2 elixirs). I'll leave it up to you to decide if this is a change for the better or for worse.
_________________
I got soul but im not a soldier.

Have love, will travel.

 

Brissa

Im suprised there is so little talk of the fact that one of the major offenders in the consumables problem seems to have been forgotten in this review, namely potions.

Chaining manapots and ironshield pots is still going to put a significant dent into healers, tanks and certain dps classes consumables bill.

 

muwatallis

Well, the vitality of alchemy now resides by the Major Protection potions; which still and will keep their role against spesifically designed boss combats such as Hydross or Al'ar(I guess).

The Dragon's Flight

 

Nausicca

Well you cant have everything.

What i want to know is if Fel Mana Potion will count as being in one of the two Elixirs groups. (Due to the debuff)

Have love, will travel.

 

songster

Depends how accessible combat pots are in 2.1 - remember they're giving us turn-ins for coilfang-specific mana pots, and there will be TK-specific pots which drop in the TK instances.

Also, they've swapped around the reagents for super healing and super mana pots, which I believe will make super mana pots easier to make. Could someone check out the rep vendors as well, in case there are vendor mana pots, like the battleground mana pots? Didn't see anything about it in the patch notes, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Basically, it looks to me as though it should only cost a few gold to get 2-3 stacks of mana potions. This isn't a bad thing - there's nothing inherently *wrong* with using consumables, especially reactive consumables that take a minimum of skill to time right.

Combat potions serve a useful function - they let you prolong a fight if your DPS isn't up to the job of taking the mob down before you run out of health/mana. If you like, they're the opposite of an enrage timer in that regard. As such, I think they actually *help* the casual raider, as long as the costs don't become prohibitively high. So look to see what the costs are before you leap.

There *is* a remaining nit to pick in that while tanks will chain certain potions (stoneshield etc) and casters chain mana potions, there's nothing comparable for melee DPS classes like rogues and warriors - we're less likely to chain health pots, since the healers will probably have our backs anyway. The answer to that is education: make your melee classes do some of the work and use health pots to take some of the heat off the healers.

 

Cesar2000

Also about Fel Strength Elixir, it only requires 1 terocone, 2 nightmare vine now. (from 2 terocone)

 

Kink

I don't see flasks put into any of the "elixir groups". So why can you not have a flask, battle elixir, defensive elixir, food buff, and weapon oil at the same time?

There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.

 

Nausicca

NO, flasks take up both slots.

Edit: changed my post to inform this

Have love, will travel.

 

Maledict

Erm, sorry, but Alchemy remains the single profession most needed for raiding, and the profession which scales the best and impacts my performance the best out of all the professions.

These are much welcome, much needed changes, but just because it's been nerfed significantly doesn't stop it from still being ahead of the other professions. Talking of protection pots being "vital" for alcmhey to remain viable doesn;t make much sense - tailoring, enchanting, blacksmithing and other professions aren't capable of adding 70 spell damage and xxx mana regen to my capabilities on every fight from here up to Illidan himself.

I'll still be carrying pots to most fights - it's just that they won't feel a huge burden anymore, and I'm not going to worry that because I dont have 4 elixirs up I'm going to be a detriment to my raid force.

 

Linnet

Nope, those reagents looked the same to me. Netherbloom * 2 for mana pots, dreaming glory for healing.

 

kovi

I hope they add a new spelldamage flask, since I'd find it quite annoying, to have to fly to Winterspring and farm a Black Lotus.
Even if they increased the Black Lotus spawnrate, Fel Lotus is much more convenient to get.

 

Russta

What is Gift of Arthas considered now?

 

Masq

Haste potions?

http://www.aftermathlb.com

 

Nausicca

As things stand now, there isnt. They have however reduced the cost of FoSP to 7 dreamfoil and 3 icecap.

Have love, will travel.

 

Merith

Can you confirm that it is 7 Dreamfoil and 3 Icecap? Icecap is used on Distilled Wisdom on live realms now, while FoSP requires Dreamfoil and Silversage.

 

Cesar2000

its not icecap

7 dreamfoil, 3 silversage, 1 black lotus

 

Crepe

Wow. While that does reduce the total amount of consumables, the requirement for Black Lotus is going to make this one of the harder flasks to farm. There's only about 40 BL spawn points in the game and they're helpfully scattered across 4 zones in completely different sections of Azeroth.

Current price for BL on my server varies between 10g and 25g, averaging about 20g. Fel Lotus is down to 5g, sometimes less. And they're increasing the drop rate on FL. Going for Shadow/Fire/Frost Power Elixirs may be cheaper for casters than flasks.

WTB caster flask using Fel Lotus.