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Old 04/16/07, 2:58 PM   #51
Drukal
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Stonemaul (EU)
Originally Posted by spronk View Post
someone mined the Madness card:

Opens a portal into the Twisting Nether that periodically summons demonic minions to aid the caster in battle for 14 sec.
Are we sure this is indeed the correct effect? That effect (Portal of Madness) has been in the game for quite some time (spell index of 25000 or so), wheras the aura of madness effect from the card is comparatively new (spell index of 40000) and not present on the live servers yet. It would be odd for them to patch in this effect so long ago, and only now put in the item which uses it - not completely unreasonable, but odd.

Significantly though, if you consider its spell index, it is in a similar region to all the other "Madness" effects relating to ZG, which leads me to suspect that it has something to do with that, rather than this new trinet.

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Old 04/16/07, 3:23 PM   #52
 Falk
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Falk
Night Elf Druid
 
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A better trinket would have been "Shackle an enemy in 'Demon Chains', rapidly draining its HP while replenishing your own until Demon Chains are destroyed".

... Wait, that sounds familiar as well.

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Old 04/16/07, 3:24 PM   #53
Elendril
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Ner'zhul
I'm guessing that portal of madness spell in the file is what the imps in front of the edge of madness cast that summons the voidwalkers.

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Old 04/16/07, 3:26 PM   #54
Coriolis
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Mug'thol
I'm really surprised there is no healing trinket at all... has blizzard said anything about that? I'd imagine people would be upset. Maybe to make up for more healing then damage trinkets in raid pve?

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Old 04/16/07, 3:27 PM   #55
Eylirria
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Mage
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Elendril View Post
I'm guessing that portal of madness spell in the file is what the imps in front of the edge of madness cast that summons the voidwalkers.
But those imps didn't periodically resummon more voidwalkers, it was 2 per portal and that was it.

Honestly seems more in line with something out of LBRS and those warlocks that opened up portals that started pouring demons in (imps/felhounds)

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Old 04/16/07, 3:28 PM   #56
Cesar2000
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Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight (EU)
Either way it has nothing to do with the card, obviously.

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Old 04/16/07, 3:33 PM   #57
 Poly
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Night Elf Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Amerle View Post
The fact that it says "direct damage attacks" leads me to believe that this would not work.
The reference to direct damage attacks is only in the Wrath card which would be of little interest to an affliction warlock anyways. The Crusade card only requires landing a harmful spell on an opponent. I would assume that a DoT would be construed as harmful and thus increase the bonus and benefit from it.

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Old 04/16/07, 3:34 PM   #58
TheOnly
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Dragonblight
For an affliction warlock without devastation, it will stack from immolate and shadowbolt. In a cycle I get about 5 or 6 of these, then a dot refresh. If I can't get at least one direct damage spell in 10 seconds due to dot refreshing, etc, then it will be less effective. My guess is that spell miss will also fail to keep it procing, so spell hit is likely still king on bosses.

I'm at about 10% crit (14% after I respec out of supression and into devastation), so it is worth up to 5% and as low as 2.5%. With improved shadow bolt that is a fairly good dps increase.
For fights where I will cast for a long time and stand still it should be very very good. I'd probably wear both of those, for constant 80 spell damage and more improved shadowbolt uptime. Though there are several others that are in the same range of effectiveness.

For trash? Nope, icon of the silver crescent + something else. Both of these just increase the effective time it takes for an affliction warlock to 'ramp up' dps. So unless its targets that live for a long time (40 seconds+) , these both seem to be things to avoid for an affliction warlock, even with very low crit%.

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Old 04/16/07, 3:45 PM   #59
Miriam
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Night Elf Druid
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
How would you see these fit druids (in feral)? Obviously vengeance is crap, and crusade as well (since druids have loads of AP anyway, and 6 AP stacked even 20 times is pretty much nothing). Wrath sounds really interesting though with 1.0 kitty speed.

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Old 04/16/07, 3:47 PM   #60
Amerle
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
The reference to direct damage attacks is only in the Wrath card which would be of little interest to an affliction warlock anyways. The Crusade card only requires landing a harmful spell on an opponent. I would assume that a DoT would be construed as harmful and thus increase the bonus and benefit from it.
I agree completely, but the post to which I was responding specifically said, "The Wrath card is interesting on an Affliction Warlock or Shadow Priest..." It caught my attention, because I had the exact same thought (about using dots and channels to build up the charges for "free" crits) until I double checked the original post.

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Old 04/16/07, 4:17 PM   #61
 Tharas
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Human Warrior
 
Draenor
Do these have a minimum level requirement to equip (or acquire)? The old ones were level 60 required, I assume these will be level 70?

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Old 04/16/07, 4:26 PM   #62
Truht
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Khadgar
Given current itemization for warlocks I can see a huge benefit to the crit trinket. You can focus completely on spell damage and stamina items like frozen shadoweave and spellstrike loaded with glowing nightseye and leave one slot open for the card (reference previously posted graph for how beneficial the trinket is with little else benefiting your crit rate). This, combined with improved shadowbolt will allow for a very significant boost in damage for the warlock and the raid, given a deep affliction or demonology build. I would like to see some sort of comparison between that model and one including ruin. I don't trust myself with the number of variables in that equation to arrive at a proper picture.

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Old 04/16/07, 4:31 PM   #63
Quasar
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Draenei Shaman
 
Dragonmaw
Wrath sounds fascinating. I value crit more than on-use AP when DPSing in cat (only thing I tend to use that sort of thing on is to boost Rip), so I'd definitely replace Bladefist's for that thing.

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Old 04/16/07, 4:59 PM   #64
 Darkmyst
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Elyree
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Originally Posted by Mezzlock View Post
so, bloodlust Brooch has 115 passive AP 70+((270x20)/120)
A warrior Dualwielding 2.6speed weapons with flurry up would have an attackspeed of 1.95, that's around 5 attacks/10s with each weapon, so 10 attacks + specials.
lets say you get to use some hamstring also for extra stacks, but I doubt it will ever go above 15 for a warrior unless he chooses to use daggers (duh)
15 stacks= 90ap
What does weapon speed in the off hand buy me?

I understand slow speed MH weapons but the off hand can be choosen soley on the basis of DPS rating and stats. Speed and top end damage mean nothing in the off hand.

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Old 04/16/07, 5:07 PM   #65
Apate
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ChickenArise
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Originally Posted by Darkmyst View Post
What does weapon speed in the off hand buy me?

I understand slow speed MH weapons but the off hand can be choosen soley on the basis of DPS rating and stats. Speed and top end damage mean nothing in the off hand.
Well, faster weapons eat more flurry charges with crappy OH swings, but are able to proc it more often.

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Old 04/16/07, 5:09 PM   #66
Bryne
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Orc Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
Wasn't there a bug with Flurry and same-speed MH/OH weapons?

Aside from that, a faster OH techncially means more rage from UW, but I don't see it harped upon to the same extent that rogues use fast OH weapons for poison procs.

The new cards are cool, I'm glad they're adding onto the Darkmoon stuff. The cards will no doubt be extremely popular (even though the theorycrafters here are already picking them to shreds) just due to the manner in which they're acquired.

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Old 04/16/07, 5:27 PM   #67
 frmorrison
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Ashstorm
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Originally Posted by bryne View Post
Wasn't there a bug with Flurry and same-speed MH/OH weapons?

Aside from that, a faster OH techncially means more rage from UW, but I don't see it harped upon to the same extent that rogues use fast OH weapons for poison procs.

The cards will no doubt be extremely popular.
That flurry bug was fixed a while ago.

UW gives a higher chance to gain rage with a slower weapon, but then faster weapons hit more, so I think it evens out for a Warrior.

The cards will be popular because they are epic not to mention decent boosts in damage.

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Old 04/16/07, 5:31 PM   #68
 Darkmyst
Terrible Terry Tate, Forum Linebacker.
 
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Elyree
Troll Warrior
 
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Originally Posted by Apate View Post
Well, faster weapons eat more flurry charges with crappy OH swings, but are able to proc it more often.
It's a net sum zero equation situation. Flurry only delivers increases in "next attack" DPS and thus has no bias to a weapons top end damage. So you want your highest DPS weapon to eat most of the charges whether that's your off hand or main hand.

You get more of an "Oooo-Ahhh" effect from Flurry using 2 slow, big top end damage weapons but it's nothing more than that. Just an Oooo-Ahhh thing and not an actual increase in DPS.

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Old 04/16/07, 5:38 PM   #69
Xellotath
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Dwarf Priest
 
Aggramar
If I had to guess, I'm going to guess the "Power of Madness" is one of the following buffs, depending on your class:

Delusional: +70 attack power
Dimentia: "Down the rabbit hole..." Every 5 seconds either gives you +5% or -5% damage/healing.
Kleptomania: +35 agility
Manic: +35 haste (spell, melee and ranged)
Martyr Complex: +35 stamina
Meglomania: +41 damage/healing
Narcissism: +35 intellect
Paranoia: +35 spell/melee/ranged crit strike rating
Sociopath: +35 strength

They each last for 30s.

Last edited by Xellotath : 04/16/07 at 5:39 PM. Reason: Added info.

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Old 04/16/07, 5:40 PM   #70
Cryect
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Elendril View Post
I'm guessing that portal of madness spell in the file is what the imps in front of the edge of madness cast that summons the voidwalkers.
Yeah, thats what it looks like it probably is most likely after further looking since its been in the game a while the spell most likely (its located next to spells for summoning things like the Postman in Strath).

Likely won't know for sure what the trinket does till well someone gets it since its a server side script.

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Old 04/16/07, 5:46 PM   #71
 Bluefish
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Troll Shaman
 
Lethon
If those effects for Madness are correct, what uses does it have? Ret Paladin and Enhancement Shaman, I guess, but it seems a little too...uhh...random!

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Old 04/16/07, 5:49 PM   #72
Xellotath
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Aggramar
Originally Posted by Bluefish View Post
If those effects for Madness are correct, what uses does it have? Ret Paladin and Enhancement Shaman, I guess, but it seems a little too...uhh...random!
It probably isn't just a random one of those. Since there are 9 classes, and nine effects, maybe each class is mapped to only one of them.

Kleptomania is obviously rogue-like, for example.

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Old 04/16/07, 6:37 PM   #73
 Oggie
Disharmonious
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Xellotath View Post
If I had to guess, I'm going to guess the "Power of Madness" is one of the following buffs, depending on your class:

Delusional: +70 attack power
Dimentia: "Down the rabbit hole..." Every 5 seconds either gives you +5% or -5% damage/healing.
Kleptomania: +35 agility
Manic: +35 haste (spell, melee and ranged)
Martyr Complex: +35 stamina
Meglomania: +41 damage/healing
Narcissism: +35 intellect
Paranoia: +35 spell/melee/ranged crit strike rating
Sociopath: +35 strength

They each last for 30s.
Just for fun-

Delusional: Hunter
Dimentia: Warlock
Kleptomania: Rogue
Manic: Shaman
Martyr Complex: Priest?
Meglomania: Mage?
Narcissism: Paladin
Paranoia: Druid (Or flip with Shaman I suppose)
Sociopath: Warrior

Just random guesses really, This seems a bit narrow-focused for a general use of a trinket slot, but I think it could be pretty amusing- it will boil down to how hard these are to get ahold of.

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Old 04/16/07, 6:42 PM   #74
Nite_Moogle
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
I think it would be a far more fun trinket if the effect was random instead of tied to a class.

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Old 04/16/07, 6:55 PM   #75
Natural
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Tauren Warrior
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Darkmyst View Post
What does weapon speed in the off hand buy me?

I understand slow speed MH weapons but the off hand can be choosen soley on the basis of DPS rating and stats. Speed and top end damage mean nothing in the off hand.
Since instant attack abilities proc flurry, you receive more benefit with slow MH and OH weapons.

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