• Arawethion

Is there some good info by now as to exactly what they are?

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

subbawt

This is by no means exact, but I've had both elixirs and potions made in bulk (100+), and I always end up with between 15 and 20% extra.

 

suicuique

My experience tells the same. Slightly above 10% would be my guess.

But now that you say it, I'll start collecting (rough) data ... thats easily done (IF the proc chance does not depend on the level of the potion/elixier created)

 

Morthandeus

I've got two masteries (Potions and Transmute) and kept records.

Potions:
1x result 82%
2x result 16%
3x result 1%
4x result 0.5%
5x result 0.5%

Transmute:
1x result 71%
2x result 29%
3x result 0%
4x result 0%
5x result 0%


Also another guild member kept records of Transmutations
1x result 84%
2x result 14%
3x result 2%
4x result 0%
5x result 0%

 

Tehehe

What are your sample sizes?

 

songster

Edit: being boneheaded - by "1x", you mean that the mastery didn't proc...


The simplest model would be a single probability to proc, and that it can then proc off itself, thus generating 2x, 3x... etc. procs. Presumably capped at a quad-proc (i.e. 5 items), since I've never heard of getting more than that.

The above figures are roughly consistent with a 15% proc probability, but there's a lot of variability, presumably due to the sample size.

 

Rius

His non-proc percentage is the percentage of time he only got x1 results.

I mean, it's right there in front of you =P

 

Zeln

34 transmutes as a master
1x result 97%
2x result 3%
3x result 0%
4x result 0%
5x result 0%

I think the single 2x result I got serves to taunt me.

 

koaschten

name / crafts / +1 procs / +2 procs
fel str / 37 / 0 / 0
major str / 50 / 8 / 1
major agi / 40 / 9 / 0

edit: by now the alt that i made my pots with dropped alchemy for tailoring to be a better farm shadow priest

 

moowalk

Please put in your sample sizes. Results mean nothing without it.

Edit: I should read better - point still stands though

 

songster

The key problem is that they seem to be using the same percentages for elixirs and potions as for transmutes, presumably on the reasoning that the same percentage increase in output for all masteries is "fair".

It isn't - because the extra stuff you get from a proc is essentially pure profit.

Thus what the masteries actually do is increase your profit by a set percentage of your total turnover. Total turnover is an order of magnitude less for transmuting.

The market will correct this in the end (if it hasn't already), in that the returns from potions and elixir masteries will end up factored into the sale price. Potions will sell for less than their "true" price, in exactly sufficient proportion to negate the gains from mastery. Thus instead of being a bonus for those with the mastery, it actually ends up as a penalty for those *without* the mastery.

When a sufficient number of people (say a dozen or so per server) have a given recipe, craters cannot make a profit on that recipe any more. It's simple economics. The value added by crafting is essentially nil. I'm not sure how to fix it, and I don't think Blizzard have a clue either.

Crafting professions are a wash - and I say that as one who's made quite a lot of money jewelcrafting. Because it's the gathering (prospecting) that makes me the money, not the crafting.

 

koaschten

To derail just a bit further, i was quite successful with my leatherworker. The Attitude of "pay my price or find one to make it cheaper for you NOW" worked quite well. And that i was the first who could craft that mail heal helmet on the server and got tons of craft requests by word of mouth.

 

Rane

I imagine Pallies will like it next patch, so I picked it up for around 900 on my server. Might slam a profit out of it

 

boomix

Fel. str. is not working with Elixir mastery until next patch.

Last night was pessimistic skydive in a foolish narcotic shell

 

◊ Cowbell

Xmute Mastery

22 Might Xmutes
1x - 86%
2x - 14%
3x - 0%
4x - 0%
5x - 0%

My 1 Water > Air Xmute was also a single. (Don't ask.)

Looks like generally transmute masters are the ones keeping tabs, which makes sense since it's such a gamble considering the time between xmutes. I'm hoping the 1 day turnaround time for the transmuted gems will prove to be somewhat profitable if you have a mining alt come the patch, but with all the new stuff out there, probably not.

(PS, first post, hi!)

 

Cel

A GM told me straight up it should be working, but apparently he was misinformed... this was a few weeks ago that I filed a ticket regarding Fel Strength and Elixir Mastery. They said it was "recently fixed."

Sigh... GMs sometimes...

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

◊ Kalman

Water->Air is currently more profitable than might on my server anyway.

I don't have a total # of transmutes performed, although I'd guess it somewhere in the 20-30 range, but I've seen 3 x2 procs, 1 x4 proc, and the rest have all been single.

 

Evalara

It's adjusting for transmute mastery as well, just as I predicted in the huge alchemy discussion around TBC release. Primal Mights are selling at cost-of-mats or below, and there is never a shortage of folks offering free Might transmutes in /trade. Thankfully since all the potential mastery proc profit is in Mights, there's still money to be made in Earth->Water or Water->Air.

 

Safid

I thought I read somewhere that the proc was a simple 1/6 with each item being able to proc another proc.

However I think that they need to change how this works for transmutation specialization. As others have mentioned, transmutes have an extra constraint that limits them -- cooldown. You can roll that die over and over as long as you have mats for potions/elixirs, but transmutes limit you to at best one roll a day.

Pretty lousy. I've done a transmute every day since I started to get them and have had two procs of my specialization. No double procs or beyond. I hardly feel like this is worth it. I should have just gone into potion specialization and gotten free mana pots.

 

◊ Kalman

If we assume a 20% total bonus (i.e. you will get 1.2 outputs for every 1 input on average), using pricing from my server:

Water sells for 18g
Air for 30g
Fire for 24g
Mana for 20g
Earth for 6g
Might for 85g

Profit on water->air x1: 12g
Profit on might x1: -13g

Profit expression:

Base profit + %chance of proc*rawvalueofproduct

Profit (w->a): 12 + .2*30 = 18g expected
Profit (might): -13 + .2*85 = 4g expected

Might's actually less profitable to transmute for a master than air.

 

Tiiki

Might is still 130g on my server and it's still not worth it.

My first ever specialised Might transmute got me 4 Mights

Thankfully I ground the Sporregar rep too, since water is 30g and earth 5g on my server...

 

◊ Kalman

Idle curiosity - what's air go for? E->W is a 31g expected profit for you; air would need to be:

P + .2*A = 31
P = A - W
1.2A - W = 31
1.2A = 61
A = 50.833g

~51g for the W->A to be more profitable.

 

Rintrah

Air generally goes on my server for 30~ gold, where water tends to go for 20~. Transmuting earth to water is definitely more profitable for me as a daily transmute when I just need to burn my timer. (And, Sporregor revered is quite easy to reach.)

The only thing that I could see being better would be Transmute Primal Shadow to Water, but as far as I know that is a discovery recipe.

As far as transmuting Primal Might... its only good if you are farming the mats for it yourself. If you take the time to farm your might mats (1 primal of each) daily, or do what I did and farm 5-6 water and fire on Saturdays and 5-6 mana and air on Sundays, you are set to make at least 450 gold in that week just from your timer (miners in your guild will likely give you earth for free, worst case is you farm/AH those too). And if you are a transmute master, you may proc for even more, which makes up for the fact that the mats themselves may be worth more than the mights.

And while its true that selling the mats themselves might bring a better profit, keep in mind that the primal fire/water/air/mana markets are generally more competitive than the might market due to AH inventory. There are times you can get 110+ for a might on the AH due to low/no inventory, and other times when you will have to settle for 85-90g. But with primals like fire and air, if you wish to sell you are usually going to have to undercut 10-20 other people on the market rather than the 5-7 at most you will usually see with mights.

 

◊ Cowbell

I'm sure the people offering free transmutes are the same as I am -- they're taking a Might they already have, trading it for mats, and then transmuting those mats whenever the clock is up in hopes of a proc. It's the only way I can actually make money transmuting, but with the proc rate so low even that just feels like a waste.

I'm horrible about things like rep grinds (if you look at my armory, everyone is pretty much a tick above revered) and so I don't have Earth > Water yet, but with the absolutely dismal results I'm getting with my mastery I should probably follow advice and just buy Earth to transmute to Water instead of wasting my time on Might.

I don't even want to talk about how ALL THREE of those procs I got were transmute for guildmates, which I can't in good conscience keep the extras from.

 

snape

I feel let down. If I was an Alchemist myself (well...I have an alt at 375 who's still in HH not having trained in a spec yet [lvl 60]), I would be thrilled to do a whole bunch of trials and compile some statistics. Alas...

I'm sure one of you soon will come up with a really nice analysis - but those so far lend themselves to 1/6 chance of a proc, with each proc gaining an additional 1/6 chance to proc (a preliminary hypothesis - but I think it's the best we have so far).