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Old 04/18/07, 10:09 AM   #16
Cel
Great Tiger
 
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Ysera
Originally Posted by boomix View Post
Fel. str. is not working with Elixir mastery until next patch.
A GM told me straight up it should be working, but apparently he was misinformed... this was a few weeks ago that I filed a ticket regarding Fel Strength and Elixir Mastery. They said it was "recently fixed."

Sigh... GMs sometimes...

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

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Old 04/18/07, 10:38 AM   #17
Kalman
Super Macho Man
 
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Originally Posted by Cowbell View Post
Xmute Mastery

22 Might Xmutes
1x - 86%
2x - 14%
3x - 0%
4x - 0%
5x - 0%

My 1 Water > Air Xmute was also a single. (Don't ask.)
Water->Air is currently more profitable than might on my server anyway.

I don't have a total # of transmutes performed, although I'd guess it somewhere in the 20-30 range, but I've seen 3 x2 procs, 1 x4 proc, and the rest have all been single.

Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

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Old 04/18/07, 10:42 AM   #18
Evalara
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by songster View Post
The market will correct this in the end (if it hasn't already), in that the returns from potions and elixir masteries will end up factored into the sale price. Potions will sell for less than their "true" price, in exactly sufficient proportion to negate the gains from mastery. Thus instead of being a bonus for those with the mastery, it actually ends up as a penalty for those *without* the mastery.
It's adjusting for transmute mastery as well, just as I predicted in the huge alchemy discussion around TBC release. Primal Mights are selling at cost-of-mats or below, and there is never a shortage of folks offering free Might transmutes in /trade. Thankfully since all the potential mastery proc profit is in Mights, there's still money to be made in Earth->Water or Water->Air.

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Old 04/18/07, 10:47 AM   #19
Safid
Piston Honda
 
Orc Rogue
 
Bloodhoof
I thought I read somewhere that the proc was a simple 1/6 with each item being able to proc another proc.

However I think that they need to change how this works for transmutation specialization. As others have mentioned, transmutes have an extra constraint that limits them -- cooldown. You can roll that die over and over as long as you have mats for potions/elixirs, but transmutes limit you to at best one roll a day.

Pretty lousy. I've done a transmute every day since I started to get them and have had two procs of my specialization. No double procs or beyond. I hardly feel like this is worth it. I should have just gone into potion specialization and gotten free mana pots.

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Old 04/18/07, 10:49 AM   #20
Kalman
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Originally Posted by Evalara View Post
It's adjusting for transmute mastery as well, just as I predicted in the huge alchemy discussion around TBC release. Primal Mights are selling at cost-of-mats or below, and there is never a shortage of folks offering free Might transmutes in /trade. Thankfully since all the potential mastery proc profit is in Mights, there's still money to be made in Earth->Water or Water->Air.
If we assume a 20% total bonus (i.e. you will get 1.2 outputs for every 1 input on average), using pricing from my server:

Water sells for 18g
Air for 30g
Fire for 24g
Mana for 20g
Earth for 6g
Might for 85g

Profit on water->air x1: 12g
Profit on might x1: -13g

Profit expression:

Base profit + %chance of proc*rawvalueofproduct

Profit (w->a): 12 + .2*30 = 18g expected
Profit (might): -13 + .2*85 = 4g expected

Might's actually less profitable to transmute for a master than air.

Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

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Old 04/18/07, 10:56 AM   #21
Tiiki
Rogue About Town
 
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The Venture Co (EU)
Might is still 130g on my server and it's still not worth it.

My first ever specialised Might transmute got me 4 Mights

Thankfully I ground the Sporregar rep too, since water is 30g and earth 5g on my server...

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Old 04/18/07, 11:00 AM   #22
Kalman
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Originally Posted by Tiiki View Post
Might is still 130g on my server and it's still not worth it.

My first ever specialised Might transmute got me 4 Mights

Thankfully I ground the Sporregar rep too, since water is 30g and earth 5g on my server...
Idle curiosity - what's air go for? E->W is a 31g expected profit for you; air would need to be:

P + .2*A = 31
P = A - W
1.2A - W = 31
1.2A = 61
A = 50.833g

~51g for the W->A to be more profitable.

Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.

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Old 04/18/07, 11:11 AM   #23
Rintrah
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Stormrage
Air generally goes on my server for 30~ gold, where water tends to go for 20~. Transmuting earth to water is definitely more profitable for me as a daily transmute when I just need to burn my timer. (And, Sporregor revered is quite easy to reach.)

The only thing that I could see being better would be Transmute Primal Shadow to Water, but as far as I know that is a discovery recipe.

As far as transmuting Primal Might... its only good if you are farming the mats for it yourself. If you take the time to farm your might mats (1 primal of each) daily, or do what I did and farm 5-6 water and fire on Saturdays and 5-6 mana and air on Sundays, you are set to make at least 450 gold in that week just from your timer (miners in your guild will likely give you earth for free, worst case is you farm/AH those too). And if you are a transmute master, you may proc for even more, which makes up for the fact that the mats themselves may be worth more than the mights.

And while its true that selling the mats themselves might bring a better profit, keep in mind that the primal fire/water/air/mana markets are generally more competitive than the might market due to AH inventory. There are times you can get 110+ for a might on the AH due to low/no inventory, and other times when you will have to settle for 85-90g. But with primals like fire and air, if you wish to sell you are usually going to have to undercut 10-20 other people on the market rather than the 5-7 at most you will usually see with mights.

Last edited by Rintrah : 04/18/07 at 11:20 AM. Reason: more content

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Old 04/18/07, 11:12 AM   #24
Cowbell
Bald Bull
 
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Uldum
Originally Posted by Evalara View Post
It's adjusting for transmute mastery as well, just as I predicted in the huge alchemy discussion around TBC release. Primal Mights are selling at cost-of-mats or below, and there is never a shortage of folks offering free Might transmutes in /trade. Thankfully since all the potential mastery proc profit is in Mights, there's still money to be made in Earth->Water or Water->Air.
I'm sure the people offering free transmutes are the same as I am -- they're taking a Might they already have, trading it for mats, and then transmuting those mats whenever the clock is up in hopes of a proc. It's the only way I can actually make money transmuting, but with the proc rate so low even that just feels like a waste.

I'm horrible about things like rep grinds (if you look at my armory, everyone is pretty much a tick above revered) and so I don't have Earth > Water yet, but with the absolutely dismal results I'm getting with my mastery I should probably follow advice and just buy Earth to transmute to Water instead of wasting my time on Might.

I don't even want to talk about how ALL THREE of those procs I got were transmute for guildmates, which I can't in good conscience keep the extras from.

Originally Posted by Bekah View Post
Then go put your dick in a car door and slam it a couple of times to finish proving how awesome you are and report back to the IMANG thread.

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Old 04/18/07, 11:41 AM   #25
snape
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Destromath
I feel let down. If I was an Alchemist myself (well...I have an alt at 375 who's still in HH not having trained in a spec yet [lvl 60]), I would be thrilled to do a whole bunch of trials and compile some statistics. Alas...

I'm sure one of you soon will come up with a really nice analysis - but those so far lend themselves to 1/6 chance of a proc, with each proc gaining an additional 1/6 chance to proc (a preliminary hypothesis - but I think it's the best we have so far).

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Old 04/18/07, 11:50 AM   #26
Tiiki
Rogue About Town
 
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<Moo>
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by Kalman View Post
Idle curiosity - what's air go for? E->W is a 31g expected profit for you; air would need to be:

P + .2*A = 31
P = A - W
1.2A - W = 31
1.2A = 61
A = 50.833g

~51g for the W->A to be more profitable.
Not enough

Plus the fact that the transmute for E->W is considerably harder to get is obviously a factor in the prices too.

Essentially on my server, prices fluctuate something like:

Earth: 5-10 (I recently bought 12 @ 4g90 to set me up for the next fortnight)
Water: ~30
Air: 30-40
Fire: 30-40
Mana: 20-25

Might is usually about 5-10g less than whatever the combined mats are going for at the time

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Old 04/18/07, 11:58 AM   #27
Latham
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Tichondrius
I've been doing an earth --> water transmute everyday and have done 50 transmutes. I've had 1 extra proc 4 times. I was also doing might transmutes or other random transmutes with no procs before getting earth to water, but can't include them since I didn't keep track until I was revered with sporegar. I'd say for me it's been more like a 6-7% chance since the beginning of bc.

1x - 90%
2x - 10%
3x - 0%
4x - 0%
5x - 0%

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Old 04/18/07, 12:06 PM   #28
Davidson
Don Flamenco
 
Human Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Tiiki View Post
Not enough

Plus the fact that the transmute for E->W is considerably harder to get is obviously a factor in the prices too.

Essentially on my server, prices fluctuate something like:

Earth: 5-10 (I recently bought 12 @ 4g90 to set me up for the next fortnight)
Water: ~30
Air: 30-40
Fire: 30-40
Mana: 20-25

Might is usually about 5-10g less than whatever the combined mats are going for at the time
Wow, the prices on your realm are about 33% higher than mine almost all around (mana is about the same price on ours however). I wonder what causes such a vast difference in pricing.

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Old 04/18/07, 12:21 PM   #29
Tiiki
Rogue About Town
 
Troll Rogue
 
<Moo>
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by Davidson View Post
Wow, the prices on your realm are about 33% higher than mine almost all around (mana is about the same price on ours however). I wonder what causes such a vast difference in pricing.
Amount of farmers? And also that we're not very high pop = more volatile market.

My Mongoose enchant cost me over 1100g too.

Then again, mine is also the type of server where you can easily still turn a profit buying greens, DEing them and selling the results. Ditto for prospecting ore. It's a bit weird really.

My most recent moneymaking scheme was Netherweb, which is insanely easy to farm outside Shattrath in between BGs / Arenas. I've probably sold at least 30 at 8g each in the last 2 weeks. Though the price is now slipping towards 5g at last (all the tailors are finished, maybe?)

Apologies for the de-rail.

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Old 04/18/07, 12:24 PM   #30
Cel
Great Tiger
 
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Ysera
Originally Posted by Davidson View Post
Wow, the prices on your realm are about 33% higher than mine almost all around (mana is about the same price on ours however). I wonder what causes such a vast difference in pricing.
More often than not, it's the number of raiding guilds on the server. Raiders consume more materials such as craftables and pots and such as they're more interested in maximizing their character than a typical casual, and they want it sooner rather than later... and with sooner comes the willingness to pay more. How many raiders have their tailoring sets compared to your nonraider? That's a lot of primals needed if you have 15 mages after the massive amounts primal fire etc. rather than 5.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

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