Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04/20/07, 4:04 PM   #16
 Hamlet
<Druid Trainer>
 
Hamlet's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
While I hadn't thought about it before, the non aggro-building of CC'ed targets makes a lot of sense.

What do you do when you want to control a CC'ed target? Have a tank whack it once or twice, then start CC'ing. When the CC break, it will happily run after the tank. Works on Moroes, Oz, Houndmaster packs in Shattered Halls, etc. Heck, we use to do it at Garr.

The threat-splitting itself is pretty apparent to anyone who used Priest kiting at Gluth.


United States Online
Reply With Quote
Old 04/20/07, 5:28 PM   #17
Dots
Don Flamenco
 
Pandaren Warrior
 
Dentarg (EU)
Split up between all non-CC'ed mobs that are in combat with your group/raid.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/20/07, 5:57 PM   #18
Eylirria
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Mage
 
Whisperwind
Nitpick question for my own curiosity: What exactly flags a mob as crowd-controlled? Apart from the obvious choices like Trap/Poly/Seduce/Sap, would effects like Gouge/Blind (Disorients) or Stuns (Kidney Shot/Cheap Shot) or Fears also temporariarly stop a mob from adding threat to players?

It's a dumb question, granted, but accurate knowledge on what characterizes "crowd-controlled" and stops threat generation could prove to be useful, even if not at large.

Brazil Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/20/07, 7:52 PM   #19
Dots
Don Flamenco
 
Pandaren Warrior
 
Dentarg (EU)
Stuns don't count as CC in this case, fears do. Not sure about disorients.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 5:18 AM   #20
Boukavlofon
Glass Joe
 
Boukavlofon's Avatar
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Sunstrider (EU)
Just a thought, range from the healed target may have to do with it.
Try experimenting with CC'd mobs at different ranges.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 5:32 AM   #21
Drauk
Bald Bull
 
Drauk's Avatar
 
Drauk
Human Mage
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by spronk View Post
Every few ms a resort is done and a mob chooses a new target if certain conditions are met - the 110% over current target for melee, 130% for ranged, etc.
This isn't 100% correct. A mob recalculates target only after threat changing moves from a player.

Originally Posted by zeidrich View Post
Women's breasts can be modeled as a cone and measured as V = (Db^2*h*.785)/3 and since breasts can be thought of as an amorphous fluid, you just have to worry about containing the volume of the breast.

Russia Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 7:05 AM   #22
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
Tyvi's Avatar
 
Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Originally Posted by Drauk View Post
This isn't 100% correct. A mob recalculates target only after threat changing moves from a player.
Are you sure about that? If you are number 1 on threat and you get a temporary deaggro such as fear or BoP the mob that was locked on you will turn to the next non-CCed player second to you in the aggro list. While doing any aggro move after the CC breaks on you (Battleshout, FFF etc) will cause it to turn back instantly just waiting for the mob to come back on it's own seems to work - but usually takes the mob longer to "realize" that you are back to be beat on.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 7:05 AM   #23
Loomax
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Warrior
 
Zenedar (EU)
Originally Posted by Arawethion View Post
While I hadn't thought about it before, the non aggro-building of CC'ed targets makes a lot of sense.

What do you do when you want to control a CC'ed target? Have a tank whack it once or twice, then start CC'ing. When the CC break, it will happily run after the tank. Works on Moroes, Oz, Houndmaster packs in Shattered Halls, etc. Heck, we use to do it at Garr.

The threat-splitting itself is pretty apparent to anyone who used Priest kiting at Gluth.
I'm quite sure, that

#show Sunder Armor
/cast [target=mouseover, harm, nodead] Sunder Armor

did help me fairly well getting some aggro on sheeped/trapped/shackled targets while they are still cc'd without breaking it. Guess i have to test, if my macro is totally useless or not, assuming they dont generate aggro while crowdcontroled.

Germany Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 7:05 AM   #24
Grubsnik
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Khadgar (EU)
While the initial assumption about AoE healing threat is correct. That threat is divided by number of mobs. I'm pretty sure the threat-distribution is only shared between targets you currently have aggro on. I don't have any concrete data to support this, only anecdotal evidence.

The most obvious was from Uldaman, on the 5-6 "normal" golem groups in the room with the 4 guardians. As a warrior, if i just went in, spammed thunderclap, shouted a bit and started dishing out sunders, they would all stick to me, and never bother the healer. However, if the mage started AoE'ing, he would pull 2 or 3 of them pretty quickly, while those remaining on me, would beeline for the healer.

The story would be: I pull, take damage from 5 mobs, so health dropping merrily, mage gets aggro on 2-3 mobs who hadn't gotten sundered yet, large heal lands on me, at least 1 of the remaining mobs head for the healer. If we just single-target dps'ed them down, all of them except the dps target would stick to me.

On a side note, i don't recall pulling aggro on a mob while healing someone they weren't tanking, but it's been a while since last i've been healing much, too much tank shortage.

Last edited by Grubsnik : 04/21/07 at 7:10 AM. Reason: Clarity

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 7:32 AM   #25
Thelyna
I park my feet under my desk.
 
Thelyna's Avatar
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Theory #2 is definitely false, I was MT healing on Maulgar last night and got smacked in the face by Olm repeatedly.

As to establish whether or not healing aggro is shared between all mobs you are in combat with, or all mobs that the heal target is in combat with, try this test: bodypull a mob, have a tank-type taunt it off you (0 threat) and stand there doing nothing. Now heal someone else in a seperate fight somewhere nearby. If you get the first mob you know your healing aggro is based off your combat list, if you don't it's based off your target's combat list. I'm not sure that really matters overmuch, because I can't think of any situations it's really relevant, but it's an interesting theoretical exercise.

New Zealand Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 7:45 AM   #26
Litany
Von Kaiser
 
Litany
Human Priest
 
No WoW Account
I'm pretty sure that it would have to be your target's list. Gaining threat with a target probably follows the same rules as whatever mechanic it is that puts you in combat with a target (e.g. healing/buffing a target puts you in combat with all the mobs your target is in combat with). This is backed up by my personal experiences, though maybe I'll test it tomorrow if no one else has by then.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 8:05 AM   #27
Skulli
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Priest
 
Talnivarr (EU)
1) should be the case.
You can see it on a lot of encounter (mag infernals) and old encounter like fankriss/razorgore etc.
When the mobs are in combat, healing is global threat to all mobs in combat.
Same with all buff-spells (thats why they nerfed battleshout tanking).

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/21/07, 8:41 AM   #28
squiffy
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Loomax View Post
I'm quite sure, that

#show Sunder Armor
/cast [target=mouseover, harm, nodead] Sunder Armor

did help me fairly well getting some aggro on sheeped/trapped/shackled targets while they are still cc'd without breaking it. Guess i have to test, if my macro is totally useless or not, assuming they dont generate aggro while crowdcontroled.
I'd be interested in any test result you get out of this, as like you, I am also sure that using this mouse-over sunder macro has given me agro on a cc'd mob for when it breaks.

New Zealand Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/23/07, 5:37 AM   #29
Phoenix
Von Kaiser
 
Phoenix's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Auchindoun (EU)
CCed mobs definately don't gain threat from healing - if a hunter pulls with a single auto-shot and traps I can ensure that when it breaks it comes after me with just two or three demo shouts despite plenty of healing being chucked around, enough that if it hadn't been trapped theres no way i'd have held aggro.

Mouse over sunder would work in precisely the same way.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04/23/07, 5:46 AM   #30
Trouble
Bald Bull
 
Trouble's Avatar
 
Trouble
Blood Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account
If healing built threat on CCed mobs then it would be much much harder for tanks to pick up mobs after they were CCed. Healers would inevitably die every time a CC was broken.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Public Discussion

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paladin and Druid tanking: Maximizing aggro crimsonsentinel Public Discussion 46 11/23/06 5:25 PM
Razorgore and Aggro generation by Healing. acranum Public Discussion 25 08/03/06 7:46 PM
Healing + Aggro = dead shaman. Flubber Public Discussion 39 08/01/06 5:46 PM
Healing Aggro with and without talents/enchant CrazyCarl Public Discussion 23 06/20/06 4:24 PM
Nefarian Phase 1 Troubles (Healing Aggro on Drakonids, not Nef). Kytrarewn Public Discussion 30 05/18/06 12:12 AM