With so many quests (presumably) leading up to the actual raid encounters with these two major leaders, I find it quite odd that when you actually get to the stage you can kill them, the lore almost stops. I'm wondering if the people that are actually actively doing these raid encounters can shed some more light on these questions (but free-for-all speculation is also fine, I guess).

So.. some big questions that still aren't answered, even though, lore-wise, Vashj could now be dead, and Kael'thas Sunstrider is being harassed by Nihilum.

- What was the deal with pumping out water from the Zangarmarsh? We destroyed the surface steam pumps in the name of the Cenarion Expedition, and now the druids are preparing for war against the naga. Is Vashj still truely working for Illidan? I would guess that the water is being pumped to some kind of steam apparatus, probably built by that Mekgineer gnome and his leper minions. But what's it powering? Does it have anything to do with whatever Kael is trying to accomplish with the Tempest Keep?

- But... the actual quest to get attuned to Serpentshrine does not come from the Cenarion druids, but rather from a mysterious 'naga'. Notice how he calls us "mortal" and how he is apparently a servant of Neptulon, the Old God's Elemental Lieutenant of Water (who is (rumored to be?) the one that created the Naga). If Duke Hydraxis of WoW 1.x was also working for Neptulon, this would be the second 'war' we are waging on his behalf...

- From this little questline, we know that Kael'thas apparently has entered into a secret alliance of convenience with the Legion, which is the source of his knowledge of naaru technology. But at the same time, he is obviously still pretending to be loyal to Illidan. Are there any further clues in The Eye which might explain what he is trying to accomplish?

I'm sorry if these sorts of things have been discussed to death in some non-obvious thread I couldn't find.

I'd love to know some answers to those questions as well.

The game is a place where the players are allowed to "live" the events. BUT, the players are not shaping the future of the story. For example; unless Blizzard yells something like "x is dead", be sure that "x" is not dead.

All dungeons are zones designed to let the players have the "fun side" of the game: Challenging entounters. Nothing else. We killed Lord Kazzak zillions of time, and now he should have been more dead than a fried chicken. But what, Blizzard announced that "Lord Kazzak has opened the Dark Portal using a mysterious relic, and fleed to Outlands to re-enstrength." And so, he is still alive.

This mentality is valid for all lore-wise raid bosses as well. I'm not gonna be surprised when Northrend expansion hits and Kel'thuzad gets announced the last boss before the last boss of the last hardest hardcore raid instance. Or, Ragnaros yells "You killed my physical presence not my existence bwahahaha..."

Another example is Eranikus. He has been cleansed by Tyrande, from the corruption inside during the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj opening chain quest. Will we see him "cleansed" once again, when we meet the Emerald Dream, since he is known as "Tyran Of The Dream"? Only Metzen knows.

They both pretty much explain their reasons when you confront them.

"Water is life, it has become a rare commodity here in Outland...a commodity that we alone shall control, we are the Highborne, and the time has come at last for us to retake our place in the world!" - Lady Vashj

There's your reason for the Naga in Zangarmarsh, and yes, she's still loyal to Illidan, an alliance of convience for the naga.

"Energy....power....my people are addicted to it, their dependance made manifest after the Sunwell was destroyed! Welcome....to the future! A pity you're too late to stop it, no one can stop me now! Sa'lama Ash'alanori..." - Prince Kael'Thas

Kael is a little more complicated, everything he's done, has been for his people. According to an Aldor questline(Aldor no more), he plans to take Tempest Keep back to Azeroth and reign over the world with it. At least, that WAS his plan until you arrive to confront him. For that he needed the legion, as Kael is no fool, and noted Illidan's madness after he lost to Arthas.

The Narru grant you access to Tempest Keep by killing Magtheridon, while Illidan sends you there for Attunement to the Black Temple and to kill Kael's pet Phoenix, after learning about his betrayal from Akama.

In all of this I'm incredibley bugged that the Blood Elves have absolutely NO city event for finding out about Kael's madness. Horde side-Blood Elves basically go to Outland, and never report back to Lor'themar Theron about what's going on. The Horde deserve a city event similar to the Alliance's Onyxia event in SW, that informs the city and it's leader about what is going on. Maybe even kill off Grand Magister Rommath, who is a Kael loyalist.

It's easy to miss the memo here, but this is correct. The Exodar (draenei capital) was actually the fourth wing of Tempest Keep, which the draenei "liberated" and promptly crashed. All four wings of TK have the same lol-lore-spaceship capabilities, presumably.

Dont forget that both of them have vial of eternity. With it help, Kael can restore sunwell and Vashj.. if they need water, maybe they need it for new well of eternity?


I also wonder what Leotheras the Blind doing in SSC. According to Varedis Must Be Stopped quest chain, Blood Elf demon hunters was trained by Illidan, and loyal to him... Why he is imprisoned in SSC then?

1) The naga are trying to create a new Well of Eternity. That is why they are pumping all the water out of Zangarmarsh.

2) I'd imagine this Naga is a high ranking member of the Highborne. I'm not 100% certain on what happened since this is a part of the lore I'm not exactly familiar with, but there was a sect of Gods or High Elves that were turned into Naga. This naga is most likely against Lady Vashj's plan to restore the well of eternity. If you remember right, the naga weren't always bad. They were outcast from the more beautiful races of Azeroth and mostly kept to themselves. When Illidan/Kael and friends needed help, they were receptive to the friendship that they offered. This cemented their "evil" alignment.

3) As someone mentioned above, Kael is trying to take the powers within TK to Azeroth. Kael has realized that Illidan has gone mad and that is why he made the deal with the Burning Legion. He recognizes Illidan's impending doom as Illidan failed/betrayed the Burning Legion and will eventually be destroyed by them/us.


PS Forgive me if I am wrong, but I do not ever recall Kael'Thas Sunstrider being referred to as King. He is always referred to as Prince. We know that his father is dead, and it would be likely that people would refer to him as King, but they do not.

This, I imagine, is just speculation based on the lore behind the Demon Hunter / Verendis questchain in SMV.... that one of the Demon Hunters being trained went mad. He wasn't mentioned by name, however.

Also, the Highbourne were the "nobles" of ye olde Night Elf society who, after the Sundering, either were no longer welcome on Kalimdor and became High Elves, or were mutated when the Well of Eternity exploded into Naga along with Queen Azshara.

The lore behind Kael in TBC isn't terrible. The lore behind Vashj, however, is. It's like a bad episode of Captain Planet or something.

If I remember correctly, the naga are a part of the Highborn who were cast belowe the waves when the Well imploded.

The naga are all warped/cursed/notverynice, but Vashj's faction is a particular brand of evil, yes. But the Naga in outland are not even close to all of the Naga; there are a ton down in the Maelstrom doing their own thing, who don't give a crap about Illidan OR Vashj.

There's a ton of Naga-related reading in Blizzard's encyclopedia. This article on the Hghborne is a good start.

Yeah here we go:

Quote from Wowwiki:

Ten thousand years ago, during the reign of Queen Azshara, there was an elite magic-using sect known as the Highborne, who dabbled in magics that many other elves considered heretical by drawing upon the power of the Well of Eternity. When the Well of Eternity imploded at the conclusion of the War of the Ancients, sundering the world, the Highborne inhabitants of Zin-Azshari were trapped in the blast. At the last second, Azshara struck a deal with the Old Gods for her survival. Azshara and her followers were dragged down beneath the raging sea... but they did not die. Twisted by the Old Gods, invigorated by the Well's energies, they took on new shapes, new powers and became the hateful, serpentine naga.

I think Neptulon want them dead, because naga corrupted Hydross. He is Duke of Currents, and probably was servant of Neptulon like Duke Hydraxis. Maybe even brother

That could be true. However, all elves are mortals. Hmm.. I also found a very nice quote here though: "Naga tend to be long-lived, much like the night elves, blood elves, and high elves. Some naga have even gained immortality as part of their mutations. However, most immortal naga are women rather than men." So the 'Heretic' is most likely to be an immortal naga that in some capacity works for Neptulon's cause (possibly as someone loyal to the 'homefront', the 'demigod' Queen Azshara). In a side-note, the concept of a wide variety of naga mutations sounds like a lot of fun for that oft-speculated Great Sea x-pac. I mean.. we already have Lord Nazjentus in Black Temple (some giant Naga monster).. imagine what freaks live near the trench under the Maelstrom :o

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=23899 He styles himself "King Sunstrider" to this letter to his gnomish contact on Azeroth. King Kael'thas Sunstrider, Lord of the Blood Elves might be his full title.

Come to think of it, what is Hydross doing?

As for the water, it's being moved somewhere else, via air, as is evidenced by the swirling maelstrom above Coilfang. My guess is that Illidan is trying to create a new well of eternity with his remaining vials, possibly somewhere in Shadowmoon.

Remember this part of the patch notes ?

Maybe...

That's one hell of a way to find out.

"Oh hey....ummm about Kael....we found out he was bad sooooo....Here's his head, can we get phat loots?!" =o

That seems likely. It drives me a little crazy that they built an entire region of Outland around the premise of nagas draining the marshes, and there's not a single lore development past the Cenarion leader pondering "huh, I wonder where they're taking it and why?". Blizzard has done some hair-brained discontinuation of storylines in the past, though this seems far too large a lore point to build up and drop. Given what we know of Black Temple and Illidan there's no further development down this line... it makes me wonder if a Vashj/Azshara/Maelstrom link is in the works for WoW's next expansion.

Derail, but has anyone figured out what the rewards for the Magtheridon turn-in item are? :o

http://thottbot.com/s34774

Hmm...

Check out the "Used by items" field. That spell effect is already in use - by an item dropped by Gruul.

Yes, I noticed that. But Gruul drops the Dragonspine Trophy, not a "Magtheridon Melee Trinket".

Yeah, that spell effect has been named that since beta; I assume it was originally a mag loot and they moved it to Gruul. Anyway, why on earth did you ask that in this thread instead of the item thread?