Why can't we kill Magtheridon? - Page 2

cheebamonkey · 04/28/07, 5:03 PM

How is your healing assigned? We usually have 8 healers with two people specifically designated to heal the raid and the rest on tanks. Also press onto your healers that if someone is in range of them and they can spare a heal to do so, because it's very easy for a clothy to die in just a few seconds. Also if you have the choice use shaman to heal the raid, chain heal is great in these situations.

Another thing that helped us is having a list of people who aren't assigned to click premade and having those who are assigned to click wisper someoen when they die with their group and cube location. This is what managed to save us on this terrible terrible kill:

http://files.filefront.com/MagKillco.../fileinfo.html

Lastly this is a macro I use now so we can check to make sure people are at the right spot for clicking:

/run SetRaidTarget("PlayerName",8)
/run SetRaidTarget("PlayerName",7)
/run SetRaidTarget("PlayerName",6)
/run SetRaidTarget("PlayerName",5)
/run SetRaidTarget("PlayerName",4)

It places icons over the players you want to click the cubes, so now you can look around the room and see if everyone is in the right spot.

For any who watch that video everyone in group 5 was in a clicking group to begin with.

Nyfe · 04/28/07, 5:09 PM

We were in a similar situation as you guys with the confusion over who is clicking what. Here is what we did to fix it. First off, only make two clicking groups consisting of 10 competent people. Ideally you want the four off tanks as well as a few of your weaker casters in these groups. In addition to the two clicking groups what we do is assign another 5 people to stay near an assigned cube at all times. They should be in range of Mag to still add damage and should only move in to actually click the cube if at the 5 second warning the originally assigned person isn't there. This eliminates the "only 4 cube's being clicked" wipes as well as adds an insurance policy if one of your original 10 dies during phase one.

Schneeb · 04/28/07, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mencius

I should have clarified. I was in a different guild before the one I am curently in and between joint runs, single guild runs with my current guild, and my old guild they have collectively seen probably 10 total...

Theres been 10~ resets for nihilum / d&t who killed him way before alot of people

niss · 04/28/07, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by Mencius

Even with double digit Mag kills under our belt my guild still gets the "CLICK THE FUCKING CUBE... GOD DAMNIT, WHO DIDN'T CLICK THE CUBE!?!?"" on vent.

Why make such an outrageous lie?

• Hamlet · 04/28/07, 5:43 PM

I'm not going to reiterate my post from the other thread, but I put some basic strategy thoughts there.

Don't let people tell you it's not a DPS fight. It is. Seeing 9 abyssals spawn is very different from seeing 6.

If shadow bolts are being cast, your making the healing hard for no reason. 7 healers is totally fine if you have good CC and interrupts, and that will help DPS.

Like people said above, pre-assign 3 click teams: 1, 2, and backup.

More importantly, 50+ seconds is a long time. If there's ever any confusion about who's clicking what, what was your raid leader doing for the past minute?

Elendril · 04/28/07, 5:57 PM

I just yell "CLICK" on vent a lot.

Our cube setup is two groups of 5, with two more groups of 5 as backup, whose job it is to make sure they're close enough to the appropriate cube to click in time in case of catastrophic failure. Every primary clicker is a ranged or healing class, and every backup is either the same or a non-essential melee (OT)

Whitemane · 04/28/07, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Arawethion

Don't let people tell you it's not a DPS fight. It is. Seeing 9 abyssals spawn is very different from seeing 6.

Phase 2 & 3 are not dps fights.

Cesar2000 · 04/28/07, 7:23 PM

Originally Posted by Whitemane

Phase 2 & 3 are not dps fights.

'OK guys, 10 mobs with 1 million hp each will spawn, and we need to kill them in 1 minute. BUT DONT WORRY, after they're dead we can take all the time we want!'

• Celenia · 04/28/07, 7:26 PM

Our guild was in pretty much the exact same position as the first poster until today, when we got our first kill. Previously our best attempt was at something like 80%. What kept happening to us was that too many clickers died and he fried the whole raid.

I got pegged for clicking duty, and I made absolutely sure to get over there in plenty of time and only click the cube once. I think the officer in charge of assigning clickers got annoyed at the last night of unfruitful attempts, so he picked the clickers very carefully this time and we all stayed alive and did our jobs well. Once we had a competent clicking team, everything fell into place. My guess is that there might be a couple nervous people in every raid who double click it because they don't see instant feedback. Make sure this doesn't happen! You'll end up with that Mind Exhaustion debuff and he'll fry everybody.

Unlike a lot of bosses, it seems like the boss' health isn't a good indicator of progress on Magtheridon. It's kinda demoralizing to wipe at 95%, but once you can get the clickers to do their job consitently, you've mastered the key part of the fight and you should be able to make rapid progress.

Whitemane · 04/28/07, 7:30 PM

Originally Posted by Celenia

Our guild was in pretty much the exact same position as the first poster until today, when we got our first kill. Previously our best attempt was at something like 80%. What kept happening to us was that too many clickers died and he fried the whole raid.

I got pegged for clicking duty, and I made absolutely sure to get over there in plenty of time and only click the cube once. I think the officer in charge of assigning clickers got annoyed at the last night of unfruitful attempts, so I think he picked the clickers very carefully this time and we all stayed alive and did our jobs well. Once we had a competent clicking team, everything fell into place. My guess is that there might be a couple nervous people in every raid who double click it because they don't see instant feedback. Make sure this doesn't happen! You'll end up with that Mind Exhaustion debuff and he'll fry everybody.

Unlike a lot of bosses, it seems like measuring success by the boss' health isn't a good indicator of progress on Magtheridon. It's kinda demoralizing to wipe at 95%, but once you can get the clickers to do their job consitently, you've mastered the key part of the fight and you should be able to make rapid progress.

Yeah, some people really mess around when they have to click because of the pressure on doing it right. One of our clickers, who fucked up a bit in the beginning and later on got it right, did almost no dps because he was so worried. He usually does great dps and all, but not that time :P

1. Target Magtheridon & observe his cast bar.
2. Click once and only once, make sure autoshot / autowand is turned off.
3. Wait until he goes "Ahhh not again blabla!" and disengage from the cube.

That's actually not a bad idea to pound into people before you start clicking properly. Take your time to be comfortable with how clicking works and people can go back to worrying about everything else when they're comfortable with it. Don't put any performance pressure on them, just focus on the clicking.

Also ask people to speak up if they would rather not be on clicking duty, some people know their limitations so respect that.

lazerpewpew · 04/28/07, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mencius

Even with double digit Mag kills under our belt my guild still gets the "CLICK THE FUCKING CUBE... GOD DAMNIT, WHO DIDN'T CLICK THE CUBE!?!?"" on vent.

It's all about timing those clicks right.

Also, we bring 3 Shaman and to burn the adds down faster our raid leaders swap them into the rogue group mid fight so they can pop heroism for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th adds.

Wait a second, isn't swapping raid members not allowed anymore in raid?

Cesar2000 · 04/28/07, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by lazerpewpew

Wait a second, isn't swapping raid members not allowed anymore in raid?

It was changed back.

mek · 04/28/07, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by Charlatan

2. The first cube rotation consists of cloth wearers - Warlocks and Mages. I don't think we have ever made it to this point with everyone in this rotation alive. So we're usually scrambling to get a "backup clicker" on one of the cubes (the reason tanks aren't on the first cube rotation is that the guildleader wants the tanks to be chain-disarming the last channeler). Typically this fails and we wipe.

Well, that's why you can't kill Mag. You don't click and you wipe. Make a buddy system of clickers, if Bob dies Joe should notice and take his spot. Find out why Bob died, try to prevent it. There is zero reason you should miss a click even if people die - make a contingency plan.

Interrupts are extremely important in this fight. Are you bringing rogues? Enhance shamans? If you have 4 warlocks, I'm guessing you're shorting on melee and that can mean a lot more dmg taken to the raid due to less interrupts - the damage can get very dangerously spiky on the 4th and 5th add even if your healers are on the ball.

Kaigami · 04/28/07, 11:21 PM

Try assigning a backup clicker for the last add's cube (in case the last add fears/kills/damages the primary one) and make sure that everyone starts to move to their cube maybe...16-20 seconds before blast nova.

Also remember on the last add its all about being relaxed and when its just the one left he's fairly easy to control. Make sure people aren't shy on potions/healthstones in phase one, especially the last add.

Oh yeh and make sure your tanks aren't holding back on pots/cooldowns/last stand/shield wall. They wont need it again for the rest of the fight so USE IT ON THE ADDS. A shield wall on the 5th add makes SUCH a difference, especially if your tank is dying/undergeared.

If your guild suffers from the dreaded case of multi-personality-retarditus...just go over the procedure of clicking the cube over and over again after each wipe.

1. Check you have no mind exhaustion as you move to the cube.
2. Turn your back to the wall.
3. Position mouse over cube making sure the cog is gold
4. Take your hands off the keyboard and mouse.
5. Look at the 2 square inches that contain the bottom line of your chat log, nowhere else.
6. "Magtheridon begins to cast blast nova". When you see this, right click.
7. Wait till your raid mod says he has been banished and he is visibly banished, then continue with your business.

Now that might sound completely demeaning and totally unneeded but...there's a lot of simple minded players out there. If you're wiping to cubes....why wouldn't you go over the exact procedure until its right.

Also dont accept any "omg i had lag" or "I was totally clicking it" or "wtf the cube turned into a turtle!?". Just tell them they fucked up, and not to do it again. Its time to get harsh on people that cant click a single button.

Mostly its about your raid believing you can do it. I'd wager most guilds one-shot or hit the 30% mark the very first time they have all the adds dead and phase 2 is under control (barring dreaded cube to turtle transmogrification problems)

Just make sure people realise that the hardest part of the fight is phase 1....the rest of it is a cakewalk.

Kalince · 04/29/07, 3:04 AM

Originally Posted by Cesar2000

It was changed back.

It was never not allowed, poorly coded mods prevented you from messing with the raid due to frame tainting.