Yes, it's really easy. Al'ar won't really be that difficult either.
Originally Posted by Vectivus
Also, not for lack of trying, I've been unable to locate any definitive resources on the trash. Having read over what's there, I have a pretty good idea what to expect, but can anyone point me to a decent explanation of the trash pulls? Or give me an idea what can/cannot be CC'd?
There are 2 Squires in every pull that have to be 'seriously' tanked. Give your tanks a few seconds for aggro, let the bears pick up whatever they can, AoE the crap out of them, then mop up the 2 you were tanking. Stay out of the fire. If it gets messy, have someone AoE taunt. Typically, we have a warrior on each of the squires, bears grab the rest, and I clap/shout throughout. A prot pally trivializes these pulls.
When you get into Solarian's hallway, there is a part where you have 2 robots on the left, and an AoE pull on the right. Get the robots first, it's just like the pulls on the way to VR.
Originally Posted by Vectivus
How long does clearing this trash take (preferably for a guild that isn't in Hyjal or BT yet, for comparison's sake)?
I'd say in the current state it's within your grasp; the change to how Wrath works removes the DPS requirement of the fight, so as long as you can pull of the AoE and the healing the fight requires, you can win it.
As for the trash, I'm pretty certain most of it can be CCed, but CCing shouldn't be required. There's basically three 'new' pull types for you. With four news mobs. There's three pulls that consist of one caster and two melee blood elves (The type with the whirlwind that hits once); two different type of casters, one frequently uses Fireball Volley, the other frequently MCs three random people. I believe the MC style also has a threat reducing knockback. The first of these pulls is with the fireball volley style mob, the other two are with the MC style mob.
The other two new mobs are both in the same pull; these are novice astromancers and star scryers, of which about 6 of each are located within a pull, as well as 2 Squires (The Flash of Light spammer Paladinish mobs). These are meant to be AoEed, and the AoE needs to be quick and efficient, because the novices are AoEing your raid quite effectively at the same time. As said above, it's largely a matter of getting used to the tanking, and a Prot Paladin does indeed trivialize gathering up the mobs and holding them throughout most of the AoE.
I would imagine this is also true for hunters. I don't think it's anything special about Wrath, but that you get our of range of your pet you get flung so high. It fails the range check so despawns your pet.
Warlock pet resummon, however, for most locks is going to be a 10-second spell, which is probably why it was noticed.
Hunter is instant regardless of spec and cooldown availability.
Originally Posted by Lujaar
In other news, Solarian seems to be running to her targets when they're out of range now. We constantly had her running toward hunters/casters, either because her arcane missile target was too far away or because one of the ranged out-threatted the nominal "tank." If anything it makes the fight easier, because it saves us the trouble of repositioning the caster clump closer to her.
She always did that. Ask me about being one-shot by Solarian! *sigh*
We actually had her move far less because we had two extra tanks to be taunting her.
There are 2 Squires in every pull that have to be 'seriously' tanked. Give your tanks a few seconds for aggro, let the bears pick up whatever they can, AoE the crap out of them, then mop up the 2 you were tanking. Stay out of the fire. If it gets messy, have someone AoE taunt. Typically, we have a warrior on each of the squires, bears grab the rest, and I clap/shout throughout. A prot pally trivializes these pulls.
When you get into Solarian's hallway, there is a part where you have 2 robots on the left, and an AoE pull on the right. Get the robots first, it's just like the pulls on the way to VR.
It's the fastest trash in TK. 20 minutes or less.
Easier way to handle things: the squires hurt. Getting them out of the clump makes the AE tanking much easier. What we do is the following:
- feral druid charges the pack, drops demo roar
- Misdirect the two squires onto two tanks about 40-50 yards back
- raid nukes the two squires down
- druid keeps building aggro as best he can; resto shaman + holy priest heal him (Earth Shield, PoM, and Binding Heal ftw)
Squires die, raid runs up, frost nova, seed, boom. No-one dies, nice and clean, and never any issues with healing.
Also, for the two robots vs the pack ... we've actually found the opposite to what you suggest. The pack should be pulled first ... the number of times we saw the robots pull the pack with them made it clear that we should just stop trying. If you want the "easier" pull for your hunters, misdirect the closest mob of the pack to a tank, rather than the robots first. That may just be our hunters, though.
Also, for the two robots vs the pack ... we've actually found the opposite to what you suggest. The pack should be pulled first ... the number of times we saw the robots pull the pack with them made it clear that we should just stop trying. If you want the "easier" pull for your hunters, misdirect the closest mob of the pack to a tank, rather than the robots first. That may just be our hunters, though.
We stand up against the left wall, Decapitator pull. Never got the pack. /shrug
We are going to try Solarian this wednesday. Althought I know (and I prefer) that we should come and see what she can do before asking question, but ... well, we are at 4/6 SSC 1/4 TK with Leo at 5% - our raid leader is busy with his RL stuff so he can't lead for 1 or 2 weeks, and since personally I don't want to try a control fight without a good leader or farming boring old bosses, I decided to ask everyone to try the new "nerfed" Solarian, it would be kind of bad (for the raid and for the one who told people to come) if it turns out to be a wipefest >.> That's why I want to everyone a few question to make some preparations. I read this whole topic, so I get it that:
- Currently Solarian can still be taunted, and Taunt can be used to interupt her Arcane Missile. We usually have 3-4 warriors/druid, so it is possible to make a Taunt rotation to reduce her AM damage (taunt when she cast AM on a low hp target)
- We won't need many healers, 6-7 will be fine.
- We won't need AR, about 150 will be nice, but not neccessary. Resist from just MoTW and Violet Eye trinket can be helpful (~30% dmg reduce from AM).
- The Agents, although having 2k5 more hp than Tidewalker adds (20k vs 17.5k) but easier to deal with (doesn't put Rend debuff and hit weaker). With 3-4 tanks we can make an Aoe Taunt rotation while letting our pally build his threat up for aoe. Even a restore druid in bear form can still aoe taunt them and stay alive.
-I don't think taunt has an effect over her arcane missiles but have to check again.Even if there is, it is a really minor one.She may be changing her "melee" but as far as I remember her arcane missile target was stable.
-AoE taunt rotation is a good one yep,4 AoE taunters should do it.Tell your tanks to use their standart "V" button, I had a hard time seeing the spawns.
-Erm, as far as I remember, our paladins used a macro where they spam healed the target of target = arcane missile target.
-Yeah you really don't need AR at all but the trinket helps a bit with MoTW I suppose.
PS:I've just noticed our rogue died from her "melee" so yeah tanks should keep taunt up, cause it is really hard to keep "aggro" when not getting hit at all.
PS:I've just noticed our rogue died from her "melee" so yeah tanks should keep taunt up, cause it is really hard to keep "aggro" when not getting hit at all.
While the Arcane missiles are RSTS, she will still melee her highest threat target.
We just make sure one healer is keeping an eye on the DPS warriors whom she's likely to hit and make sure the tank taunts as soon as she targets one of the more fragile melee DPS. (We don't try to "taunt" the missiles, we just out heal them, so taunt cool down for that isn't an issue).
On a sidenote, doing Solarian yesterday, we discovered that Wrath of the Astromancer can even be resisted fully on cast so you don't blow up at all. But lowering your DPS by hogging arcane resist, hoping to resist it on a constant basis is definitely not needed.
We tried her for the first time last night, since things haven't been going well on Vashj. I think our raid got blown up too often, but here are the WWS for each attempt.
Ty for answering, sorry but one more stupid question, can we reset her or we will have to run all the way back if we wipe without DI / SS ?
She resets. Once everyone is out of the room she will try to pick AM targets, fail, and try to path out and will reset (and remove any ticking Wrath) when she passes through the doorway.
Wrath ignores LoS so be aware of that as your guys run out, they may still be wrathed.
She resets. Once everyone is out of the room she will try to pick AM targets, fail, and try to path out and will reset (and remove any ticking Wrath) when she passes through the doorway.
Wrath ignores LoS so be aware of that as your guys run out, they may still be wrathed.
Honestly....if you're gonna wipe, just clump people in the middle, let the Wrath kill you, and run back. Since everyone resses with full HP/Mana, it's much faster than waiting for the res chain to get to 25 people, heal, and drink up.
Honestly....if you're gonna wipe, just clump people in the middle, let the Wrath kill you, and run back. Since everyone resses with full HP/Mana, it's much faster than waiting for the res chain to get to 25 people, heal, and drink up.
Someone asked, I answered. It may not be the best way to go about things but someone may find it useful to know that she tethers. So do VR and Al'Ar (in p2) by the way, in case people didn't know.
(For reference, we saw her today for the first time and killed her in 5-6 attempts.)
Originally Posted by Bunnyz
- Currently Solarian can still be taunted, and Taunt can be used to interupt her Arcane Missile. We usually have 3-4 warriors/druid, so it is possible to make a Taunt rotation to reduce her AM damage (taunt when she cast AM on a low hp target)
A full-fledged rotation is really unnecessary. Just tell your tanks to taunt if she targets someone low on health. It won't happen often enough for taunt cooldowns to be a problem.
- We won't need many healers, 6-7 will be fine.
We did it with 8 and had healing to spare, so I think 6-7 should be fine. In our experience, things went much more smoothly when we had all the ranged and healers clump up in one spot, and whoever got Wrath just ran out. We tried it first with everyone spread out, but we ran into range problems for the healers and people not having clear escape routes for Wrath. With everyone clumped together it was trivial.
- We won't need AR, about 150 will be nice, but not neccessary. Resist from just MoTW and Violet Eye trinket can be helpful (~30% dmg reduce from AM).
We skipped AR entirely and had no trouble. I wouldn't have the raid wearing any AR even given the option; full dps gear means a faster kill and fewer things that can go wrong. The damage on the fight really shouldn't be a danger to anyone as long as people are executing properly, and the execution isn't hard to learn at all.
- The Agents, although having 2k5 more hp than Tidewalker adds (20k vs 17.5k) but easier to deal with (doesn't put Rend debuff and hit weaker). With 3-4 tanks we can make an Aoe Taunt rotation while letting our pally build his threat up for aoe. Even a restore druid in bear form can still aoe taunt them and stay alive.
We tried challenging shout/roar rotations, but found it was just easier to clump together, have our prot paladin (me) consecrate, and then have the AoE open up after 5 seconds. I'd imagine a 41/20/0 paladin could probably do it just fine as well. The agents are each weakly aggro'd on a random person when they come out, and a single agent really isn't going to do significant damage to one person before the consecration picks them up.
What I'm describing above is the way we ended up doing the fight, but it's a very easy encounter and I'd imagine there are many many viable strategies.
My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.
Tried Solarian the first time yesterday.
As i'm the MT, I've tried taunting her to reduce AM dmg, but I never got hit by her melee attacks, so it seems like taunt does nothing at all(It forces her to target me between AM, but it didn't reduce the ratio of her AM spam)
So i just ended up "dpsing" in def equip and tanked one of the spawning priests.
Never made it till 20% because of rnd people exploding in group -.-
We simply AEd all the agents, without a prot pala or druid/warrior tanking them(had 5 warlocks and 3 mages with us, so a nice group for AE )
Taunt on Solarian just forces her to target you for the next AM volley, it doesn't "force her" to target you next nor melee you after it ends. You only use taunt in order to stop the volleys from killing someone at low-HP (as mentioned earlier in the thread). If you arn't using a prot paladin/other damage sponge for the AoE'ers then you'll definitely find taunting AMs useful, as it's quite likely that at some point in the fight you'll have someone being hit by agents, AM and potentially Wrath aswell. If by "random people exploding" you mean from Wrath, then that's relatively easy to fix. If you mean exploding from melee damage from the grouped agents then perhaps using that paladin idea may help you out.
Oh and also, you may want to tidy your post up a little, PewPew.
We went for her for the first time last night, only ended up having time for 3-4 attempts (we started the night in SSC and moved over to TK last-minute).
We got her to 23% before we had two Wraths explode on people inside the groups back-to-back, killing most of our DPS. We probably could have pulled a kill off if we had pushed her to 20% before the next set of adds, but hey, it happens.
We expect to kill her tonight.
My only question is this - for the AoE (after she teleports out, when the 12 wimpy adds portal in), do you have all of your ranged/healers run to the center to encourage the adds to move to the middle? We had varying results - the adds clearly got picked up by a tank or some kind of AoE, but we often ended up having Solarian pop out and put Wrath on a ranged DPS or healer, who would run out with the other ranged/healers and nuke them. We're going to assign directions to run if you get bombed tonight, which should solve the problem, but I imagine different people do it different ways.
Also, what group compositions have people generally taken? What I aim to take tonight is:
We went for her for the first time last night, only ended up having time for 3-4 attempts (we started the night in SSC and moved over to TK last-minute).
We got her to 23% before we had two Wraths explode on people inside the groups back-to-back, killing most of our DPS. We probably could have pulled a kill off if we had pushed her to 20% before the next set of adds, but hey, it happens.
We expect to kill her tonight.
My only question is this - for the AoE (after she teleports out, when the 12 wimpy adds portal in), do you have all of your ranged/healers run to the center to encourage the adds to move to the middle? We had varying results - the adds clearly got picked up by a tank or some kind of AoE, but we often ended up having Solarian pop out and put Wrath on a ranged DPS or healer, who would run out with the other ranged/healers and nuke them. We're going to assign directions to run if you get bombed tonight, which should solve the problem, but I imagine different people do it different ways.
Also, what group compositions have people generally taken? What I aim to take tonight is:
Would I be better off dropping a Feral Druid and a Hunter for a couple of Shadow Priests?
Why are you using two prot warriors and one prot pally? Think of this fight as Shade of Aran, did you take two prot warriors for that fight? This fight's all out dps, and yes do take a shadow priest or two.
We have every one stand on a marked target (raid leader) on a single point, when the adds spawn we use frost nova, earthbind totems, and other slowing effects and nuke them down asap, along with me aoe taunting and picking up the adds off casters as much as possible. I do this in dps gear around 14k HP, considering the adds hit like ret pallys, and I can dps for rest of the fight. The three prot tanks are hurting your raid, take only one and i suggest pally for conc. This fight is a nuke fest, not a tank fight.
Why are you using two prot warriors and one prot pally? Think of this fight as Shade of Aran, did you take two prot warriors for that fight? This fight's all out dps, and yes do take a shadow priest or two.
You mean the Shade of Aran protection specced warriors can actually out dps almost any other class on?
Prot specced warriors with decent fury gear can often out dps half the raid depending on the fight.
Why? does it honestly make any difference at all to drop 1 prot warrior for any of these classes on this fight?
A prot warrior has the same interrupt as a rogue and talented, A silence ability.
A prot warrior has at very least a few thousand more HP than a mage.
The post you originally quoted stated they had 4 mages and 4 warlocks (If ive read it right) so dropping that prot warrior really wouldn't make any worthwhile difference.
We take the two Prot tanks for tanking the trash, and because they're both 100% attendance raiders. I could have them respec, but they still need to tank trash and other bosses during the raid night.
If we were going to sit tanks, it would be Feral Druids - and I'd prefer to have them available, too.
We didn't struggle with DPS, and healing seemed to be okay. I'm thinking the addition of a Shadow Priest or 2 for the AoE classes would help, though.
How can you say this is any kind of race now? It is a simple execution fight now. He said they had wraths killing their raid and you suggest dropping prot warriors. This is hardly reasonable advice :>
09/28/07, 5:01 PM
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