http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...98656941&sid=1

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Just finished my Frozen Shadoweave set yesterday. Ouch.

Although it may be warranted in the long run, I'll be fucking pissed if this goes live. They said they're adding more int to Shadoweave? Huh?

I posted this in the other thread, but I hope they will reconsider the other DPS nerfs. The main reason our DPS was so out of wack is because we had itemization head and shoulders above other classes.

May I ask why you would be so pissed? We lose 34 shadow damage which according to the warlock dps spreadsheet is a loss of 5dps. Unless I did something wrong, they mainly changed this to make the set more mage friendly.

How many Mages do you know with the Frozen Shadoweave set?

Though some kind of change was needed, I think, it's frustrating how they went about it, and it hints at a greater problem in itemization theory at Blizzard. These sets were excellently itemized. Aside from the fact that they had specific school damage, they just spent item points well. Now, they're removing damage and adding intellect? What? Poor itemization on tailoring items doesn't make tiered sets better. What needs to happen is more intelligent distribution of stats. They don't need to be perfect, but there's a huge margin between perfect and awful; somewhere closer to perfect than awful on the sliding bar would be nice.

It's more difficult for healing gear to quantify the benefits of healing vs. mp/5 for instance, but for DPS classes, aside from the quasi-benefits of stamina, it's almost pure math. Math that changes depending on spec, sure, but there's a best DPS spec for most classes too. Gear should be itemized towards that end. Anything else is nothing short of frustrating.

I know quite a few frost mages who have the set. But its not that big a deal. Is 5 dps (~0.5% of your dps) really worth crying about?

this is fine.. if they change shadow weaving back to what it was. everyone's always known that the tailored sets were too good considering how early you could get them. for priests though, it hurts more, since our T4/T5 dps sets are garbage.

Any news on mooncloth by chance?

Ah I remember the nerf of Invulnerable Mail like it was yesterday, welcome to our world casters

I'm on the other side of the fence here not having the tailored set. It's been frustrating knowing the best upgrades you can get for your primary role in the game would be to reroll proffessions.. But the way they went about this is just plain stupid, even from one from the order side of the fence. The sets were perfectly fine, the problem was that raid ugprades and tier sets weren't good enough, so they marginally upgrade tier5 and nerf the tailored gear to match the lackluster tier5, what? It seems very messed up and doesn't build any confidence in Blizzard's itemization team, however low it was to begin with.

I fully expect the Blizzard threads to erupt into a full blown whinefest, I hope we don't get that here. For the last several months, the common theme here has been "Tailoring items are why casters have been so overpowered vs other classes in raiding." Now they're nerfing them down a little bit, by the only way they can. They can't go and remove sockets from them now, because that would cause a shitstorm of epic proportions.

Can anyone really sit here and be surprised they're nerfing these? I wouldn't be surprised to see them nerf Spellstrike a little bit as well. But again, they can't really remove the sockets now, and that was what really put the items over the top.

Not a bad nerf at all and probably need to happen with how good they were in comparison to other pieces of gear of the same iLVL. I don't think anyone can say they didn't really see this coming.

Just checked, stats are the same still.

And yeah, tailoring is definitely "overpowered", but as I mentioned earlier in the thread.. being limited by poor itemization is bad too. I agree, no one can really say that some sort of change wasn't necessary, but to me this seems like the easy way out to avoid solving the real problems. For what it's worth, I don't even have tailoring and I'm healing specced, so it doesn't directly affect (effect? gah, I never get these right) me, but the general theory behind their itemization does.

Obviously this sucks for people like me who just finished their set. However, based on the posted changes, I don't think it appreciably changes the amount of time that these items will be worn by most people. So it's like we're suddenly writing off all the money spent on Tailoring as a loss.

I really saw this coming. And to be honest in the big picture they are very minimal changes. I think the tailors dodged a bullet if this the extent of the nerf. I also think spellstrike will get the bat as well. It was bound to happen when no one was using the actual gear from boss drops.

Spellstrike hasn't moved from its current stats.

On Spellfire and Shadoweave, they nerfed not only the point allocation, but also the budget. On the robes, 12 damage shifts to 8 int, and on the 2 other pieces, 11 damage shifts to 8 int. Considering the exponential cost of stats, that means they reduced the item budget by a good amount...

Honestly, I'm pissed. As others said, they should fix the tiered sets with all its spirit, instead of nerfing items many people spent thousands of gold to get, or are presently spending thousands of gold to get... I'm not the most affected, since I've been a tailor from day one on my mage, but many people in my guild have made the switch to tailoring in the past weeks, after waiting to make sure they didn't nerf the set in the first PTR patch.

About time they tuned(balanced) that.
before it was tier4 - tier5/tailoring
now it will be tier4/tailoring - tier5
Now if only they unsoulbound the ring enchants or remove them from game, the people with god chosen proffesions wont have advantage over others.

"Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same but get better." -- Sydney J. Harris

Sometimes the correct answer to fix something is not to buff everything else. There was obviously a problem and Blizzard is fixing it. And don't act like its the end of the world because it isn't. Adapt and overcome, hunters have been doing it for the past 2.5 years.

As someone with both full spellfire on my mage, full shadoweave on my warlock, and in an above average raid guild, I'd like to add my thoughts on this subject.

I fully expected a nerf to this content seeing as how blizzard is reluctant to make the raid drops big upgrades over previous tiers to appease the non-raiding (I hate to say casual) 70's. Both the sets are either DPS downgrades or sidegrades. They simply were too well itemized. Any logical upgrade would have to be more +damage in the case of affliction warlocks/shadow priests and that caused a serious gear plateau that wouldn't be eclipsed until black temple and beyond loot.

When you have casters who wont loot a single item in all of SSC and still top the damage meters is kind of silly and improving raid drops from what is already an overly well itemized set will cause caster inflation way too fast.

Totally agree with this post. The developers seem to think nerfing one thing counts as a real buff to something else -- this attitude is getting to be extremely frustrating.

I completely understand the nerf however, spriests and affliction locks waltzing around in gear that is as good or better in some cases than Black Temple loot is pretty absurd.

Err - ultimately, balance in a game is about relative power level, not absolute. If they left the set the same but buffed every other item, the result would be the same - a reduction in relative power level of the set, which is what the intention of this change clearly was.

The tailoring sets were too good. They were itemized too well for their accessibilty, and they provide an imbalance not only with the quality of raid gear, but with the quality of gear available to other classes. I touch on this in the hunter thread, but the tailoring sets are a big reason casters are blowing away other classes in damage - tailors are simply at a higher tier of gear than anyone else by default.