Tailoring sets supposedly nerfed on PTR - Page 11

• Shalas · 05/01/07, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by CheshireCat

I know this isn't nearly as big a concern for healers as it is for the damage casters, but has anyone seen any word on changes to the Primal Mooncloth set? I wouldn't mind losing a few points of +healing, but I really hope they don't put the points into Int.

It's currently unchanged. I'm hoping it stays that way, as the Primal Mooncloth items aren't that amazingly better than the alternatives.

snape · 05/01/07, 10:21 AM

I mean, it was so incredibly clear that something was going to be done for the longest time (I was in Beta - having my jaw drop when I arrived at the tailoring spec NPC's), that after nothing was done FOR the longest time, I assumed there wouldn't be a change (make sense?).

If they planned on a change....it just seems a little late to me.

Antiphonal · 05/01/07, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Margot

Tier 3 was very well itemized for raiding. It's been downhill since then, except for this one boon to Tailors. As a lot of people in this thread have asked, why are the itemization people ignorant of the stats raiders want? It's not that they're making items "balanced", it is that they put useless stats on them for no apparent reason (crit on shadow priest tier sets, for example).

My only guess is that the itemization team does not _want_ to make fully min-maxed gear. Sure, +spirit for mages isn't as good as +dmg, so in a pure sense the points in spirit are wasted in comparison.

I have a feeling the item team wants a mage "experience" that wearing full TierX gives. Mage armor does more, cool procs on crits, bigger and longer evocations, hefty stamina for incidental damage, and so on. Making min-max gear is easy; obviously they know how to do it (Robe of the Archmage, pre-nerf FSW). They just have something else in mind.

I think that's the only way to explain the crit on dps priest gear. It isn't anywhere near enough to make Surge of Light into an interesting longevity mechanic (even if there were a point to bringing a smite dps priest to a raid), and there are just a few spells that can crit (Blast, SW-D). Why is it there? Because it is cheap to put just a little bit of +crit on things, and it is cool and fun to get huge MindBlast crits. They know very well that the +crit is far too expensive for the actual dps benefit it provides. But I think they are actually shooting for some kind of "Shadow Priest Experience" that the gear will somehow provide.

That's my take on it, at least.

Dawn · 05/01/07, 10:34 AM

The changes look reasonable as long as they add an upgrade path for tailored BoP gear similar to that of blacksmithing BoP weapons. In fact, every profession should have this.

Papajan · 05/01/07, 10:36 AM

yeah, I felt the same way, Snape - I thought that a lack of changes for months implied that those sets were finalized.

Just to keep the "just +34 damage" reasoning in perspective, I probably won't get 34 more +damage (or crit/hit equivalent) within the next few months. Generally speaking, individual slot upgrades for me in TBC are on the order of +5 damage equivalent and some sta/int.

Thomase · 05/01/07, 10:48 AM

34 damage in the grand scheme of things isnt a huge deal.

What I see as a bigger deal is that if something is itemized properly, no matter how easy/hard it is to obtain, at a moments notice it can be changed with no explaination.

- Reaching the end level of a crafting skill is a huge step
-- It takes time, money, patience (ugh fu motes)
-- Basically hitting 375 is a huge achievement for those who do it legitimately

Simply downgrading what you have worked hard for on a follow-up test realm patch is a horrible place to find these changes.

It was like bait and switch in all honesty. I love playing my lock, but i like raiding/instancing with my paladin. I passed on the idea of going for an epic flying mount with the hopes of being able to get him a truely nice set of gear (which it indeed still is).

But had i known this since the beginning, i would have kept him with 300 mining. Also knowing the changes to Alchemy, i would have dropped herbing instead.

These major changes all in the name of a percieved "balance" dont make up for horrible itemization on their part, and they just annoy people who have worked so hard to achieve a goal.

Keline · 05/01/07, 10:49 AM

I really don't see how they want to fix the consumable stuff if we have to work with mediocre equipment and our talents receive nerf after nerf.

I strongly disagree with all the people here that say the set was too good. It was not, it did not exceed the item value (did it?), all the other items simply have their value spent on garbage.

Thomase · 05/01/07, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Keline

all the other items simply have their value spent on garbage.

And thats the thing, its not like they nerfed the item itself by downgrading the damage, they nerfed it by adding intellect which is not what anyone as far as i can tell went into tailoring for.

Sorry, just the rants of an alchemist paladin with a warlock tailor.

Maledict · 05/01/07, 10:53 AM

Depressing how the Girdle of Ruination is now strictly better than the Spellfire Belt in all respects though. That needs looking at, as it simply doesn't make sense.

snape · 05/01/07, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Maledict

Depressing how the Girdle of Ruination is now strictly better than the Spellfire Belt in all respects though. That needs looking at, as it simply doesn't make sense.

And it makes even less sense when you consider how piss-poor Girdle of Ruination used to be.

moowalk · 05/01/07, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Shalas

It's currently unchanged. I'm hoping it stays that way, as the Primal Mooncloth items aren't that amazingly better than the alternatives.

Well +healing doesn't have an equivalant mechanic to single school spell damage. This where all the trouble stems from.

niska · 05/01/07, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

Chest not upgraded until Tier 6
Shoulders slight upgrade with Tier 5
Boots upgraded with the +Shadow/spell hit boots from one of the SSC bosses

Even with the lose of 34 damage, they still will last you for a while, they are really great items.

The T5 chest is also an upgrade. The boots are more arguable and drop off of Hydross. The crit boots from Lurker would also do for some builds.

snape · 05/01/07, 11:01 AM

Actually, it's very equivalent - pure +heal is a much lower item budget cost than +dmg/heal. Therefore, the PM set has +heal in spades, just like our sets used to (or soon won't - whatever you prefer). It's just not analogous to the damage caster situation because very little healing gear (read: any) expects the player to substitute pure +heal to +dmg/heal.

Lhivera · 05/01/07, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Manniefresh

How many Mages do you know with the Frozen Shadoweave set?

Pretty much every Frost mage tailor has this set. It's by far the best gear available to us.

And no, this change does not make it more mage-friendly.

The problem here is that the Tiered sets cannot compete with the tailored gear because one-size-fits-all-specs-but-not-really gear simply cannot make as efficient use of its itemization budget as gear tuned to specific specs. The correct solution was to make multiple tiered sets for DPS classes. Instead they decided to deliberately reduce the efficiency with which the budget points were spent on the tailored gear.

• sadris · 05/01/07, 11:25 AM

The difference is that ALL healer gear has +healing only. Very, *very* few pieces of raiding gear has +dmg to ONE school but rather +dmg to all. And it is clear that Blizzard doesn't expect this to change and therefore, must make T5,6 appealing over gear with +dmg to one school. This is achieved through nerfing the craftable gear or buffing the tier sets (thus pushing them over the iLevel).